Woodmere Avenue, Watford
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Woodmere Avenue Width Restriction
So I just found this channel that's been posting videos of crashes occurring at a width restriction in Watford.
Here is is on GSV
I think the width of the passage is actually narrower than what's signposted, so narrow that plenty seem to misjudge it completely.
This video talks about it, was posted almost 3 years ago, and apparently crashes have been happening for years (according to someone in the video) yet it hasn't been fixed?
Not only that, but plenty of people seem to just go through the bus gate anyway, (probably to avoid damaging their car!)
Side note, I've never seen a bi-directional lane before (that isn't lane controlled by signs).
Here is is on GSV
I think the width of the passage is actually narrower than what's signposted, so narrow that plenty seem to misjudge it completely.
This video talks about it, was posted almost 3 years ago, and apparently crashes have been happening for years (according to someone in the video) yet it hasn't been fixed?
Not only that, but plenty of people seem to just go through the bus gate anyway, (probably to avoid damaging their car!)
Side note, I've never seen a bi-directional lane before (that isn't lane controlled by signs).
Re: Woodmere Avenue Width Restriction
What I see is simply appalling driving, I used to drive through a restriction on Camrose Avenue every day which was even narrower, looking at the paint marks on the poles people misjudged that too.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.60155 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.60155 ... 8192?hl=en
- Glen
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Re: Woodmere Avenue Width Restriction
Given that cars clearly can get through without causing damage to themselves, I don't think the whether the signed width is accurate or not has any bearing on drivers of cars hitting the posts. It's simply people going too fast and/or not judging the position of their vehicle.
Having said that, the steel posts right at the edge of the kerb seem a somewhat hazardous way to enforce a width restriction, high containment kerbs would have the desired effect of prohibiting HGVs, while posing less risk to drivers who misjudge their position.
Having said that, the steel posts right at the edge of the kerb seem a somewhat hazardous way to enforce a width restriction, high containment kerbs would have the desired effect of prohibiting HGVs, while posing less risk to drivers who misjudge their position.
- ravenbluemoon
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Re: Woodmere Avenue Width Restriction
I used to work a bit around the Watford area and have noticed a few of these restrictions, though not necessarily with that weird bus lane bit. Generally, if you pass through at under about 10mph then they're a doddle in most cars.
Saying that, the signed width restriction on that example just doesn't seem right. If you move the view forwards and then look back, you'll see that it is just wide enough for the Ford Focus(?) to pass through. That's got to be less than 2.1m? When I built my garage a couple of years ago, I had to deal with a quite narrow entrance (the lower parts of the doors fold up as the ground in front slopes) and I have it measured at 1.85m at the narrowest point. A Transit will fit though!
Saying that, the signed width restriction on that example just doesn't seem right. If you move the view forwards and then look back, you'll see that it is just wide enough for the Ford Focus(?) to pass through. That's got to be less than 2.1m? When I built my garage a couple of years ago, I had to deal with a quite narrow entrance (the lower parts of the doors fold up as the ground in front slopes) and I have it measured at 1.85m at the narrowest point. A Transit will fit though!
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Re: Woodmere Avenue Width Restriction
Looking at GSV 2021, a large Transit Luton type van has got through without damage.
Re: Woodmere Avenue Width Restriction
In the posted video, few of the cars seem to be going fast. I would guess most of the drivers are looking at the bollard on the middle of the road and neglecting the kerbside one.
Without knowing the area and circumstances, it does seem a rather hostile way to restrict width. If there are as many accidents as the video makers claim, something is wrong with the design. Other width restrictions I know don't do this.
Without knowing the area and circumstances, it does seem a rather hostile way to restrict width. If there are as many accidents as the video makers claim, something is wrong with the design. Other width restrictions I know don't do this.
Re: Woodmere Avenue Width Restriction
Looking on GSV there is a white marking in front of a dropped kerb immediately before the gate. This could cause some drivers to misalign their approach.
Woodmere Avenue, Watford
This street seems to have had more than its fair share of knocks, bumps and scrapes. A width restriction was introduced ostensibly to stop trucks and other traffic rat-running towards an industrial estate. But rather than blocking their progress, an inordinate number of drivers seem to catch and impale themselves on one of the bollards.
This was supposedly remedied in 2022, with the lanes being made wider and island kerbs being narrowed, pending a new ANPR-based (and island-free) system.
I must admit I had a jolly good laugh over the videos, but was a bit bemused why people were crashing so hard into the bollards. Are the lanes too narrow for the oncoming traffic?? Did drivers miscalculate (or not bother to adjust) their approach speed?? The 20 zone is clearly signed, but immediately after turning off the A41.
And how could they apparently hit the nearside kerb first?? The newspaper article suggests that’s why the drivers were crashing into the offside bollards, due to the impact of hitting the nearside ones.
This was supposedly remedied in 2022, with the lanes being made wider and island kerbs being narrowed, pending a new ANPR-based (and island-free) system.
I must admit I had a jolly good laugh over the videos, but was a bit bemused why people were crashing so hard into the bollards. Are the lanes too narrow for the oncoming traffic?? Did drivers miscalculate (or not bother to adjust) their approach speed?? The 20 zone is clearly signed, but immediately after turning off the A41.
And how could they apparently hit the nearside kerb first?? The newspaper article suggests that’s why the drivers were crashing into the offside bollards, due to the impact of hitting the nearside ones.
Last edited by Berk on Tue Jul 04, 2023 23:05, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
This handy graphic explains it a bit better…
It seems like the nearside kerb (in the middle distance) is more tapered outwards than it was in 2011. So maybe that’s making drivers think they should bear right, only to realise there’s a kerb and bollards, so they veer leftwards…
It seems like the nearside kerb (in the middle distance) is more tapered outwards than it was in 2011. So maybe that’s making drivers think they should bear right, only to realise there’s a kerb and bollards, so they veer leftwards…
Last edited by Berk on Tue Jul 04, 2023 23:07, edited 1 time in total.
- Patrick Harper
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Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
Looks like drivers are inadvertently driving onto the dropped kerb just before the bollards.
Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
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Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
I’m guessing, but they probably tried signs and paint, and found lots of people ignored it.Peter Freeman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 01:36 What's the point of that crazy separation anyway? Use paint instead!
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Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
As I said earlier or many years my route home took me through this restriction on Camrose Avenue.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6019217 ... &entry=ttu
Its 6" narrower than the one in Watford and I was driving a Rover 75. This is what it looks like up close and personal.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.601822, ... &entry=ttu
Getting through was easy, you slow to walking pace and get as close as possible to the offside pole and keep the wheel straight ahead - job done, there was a good 2" of clearance. The point was to exclude all large vehicles except buses and emergency vehicles from the residential streets. 20 years on its still there. I could have avoided it but that would have added another 1/3 of a mile to my journey. It looks like the Google Car bottled out
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6019217 ... &entry=ttu
Its 6" narrower than the one in Watford and I was driving a Rover 75. This is what it looks like up close and personal.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.601822, ... &entry=ttu
Getting through was easy, you slow to walking pace and get as close as possible to the offside pole and keep the wheel straight ahead - job done, there was a good 2" of clearance. The point was to exclude all large vehicles except buses and emergency vehicles from the residential streets. 20 years on its still there. I could have avoided it but that would have added another 1/3 of a mile to my journey. It looks like the Google Car bottled out
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Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
^ You coped with the 2" ok, and I hope so could I, but many drivers would be very challenged.
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Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
That Camrose restriction looks very tight. A Porsche Taycan for example, the EV saloon, is a 1966mm wide bodyshell (2144mm mirror to mirror) leaving 34mm of error room.
Re: Woodmere Avenue, Watford
Indeed, in fact it’s so tight, I’m wondering whether they should have used a different sort of restriction (build-outs, for example).
It seems like you not only have to slow down to walking pace, but turn very sharply in order to exit it. I doubt you’d be moving very fast at all, more like strolling pace.
Which, even for traffic calming is rather excessive. Wouldn’t want to go through at peak time.
It seems like you not only have to slow down to walking pace, but turn very sharply in order to exit it. I doubt you’d be moving very fast at all, more like strolling pace.
Which, even for traffic calming is rather excessive. Wouldn’t want to go through at peak time.