Signpost in our garden!

[NAJ]

Hi there,
We live next to a road and the speed limit has just been changed. Highways have put a sign in our front garden without seeking or getting our permission. Note the wall meets inline with the neighbours stone hedge.

On the land registry its clear the sign falls within our boundary. I have raised it with Highways.

Anyone have experience of this happening before or know the legal perspectives on this?
Kind regards,

Nicholas

[Darren]

Legally I suspect you could go after them, but is it worth the faff? It may be your land but it's certainly not used as a garden, if anything it looks like a grassy verge. Does the council cut the grass or do you do it?

I've got a similar situation, but with a power pole - my garden wall is set back in line with the neighbour's, but according to the power company (and indeed the deeds) the pole is on my land. I had to give permission and sign a form for them to replace it with a taller one, which I did, quite happily.

Like you, I have grass outside my wall and the council strims it every month. No complaints here!

[RichardA35]

Hi there,
We live next to a road and the speed limit has just been changed. Highways have put a sign in our front garden without seeking or getting our permission. Note the wall meets inline with the neighbours stone hedge.
Small_20230706_190759.jpg
On the land registry its clear the sign falls within our boundary. I have raised it with Highways.
Land Registry.png
Anyone have experience of this happening before or know the legal perspectives on this?
Kind regards,

Nicholas

Land registry electronic plans are not definitive. A copy of the plans with the property deeds is the definitive document.
The highway extends to the highway boundary. That boundary looks like the wall in the photo.
In the background it looks like a BT manhole and ducts in the verge. To back your claim you should be able to point to an easement agreement in your deeds that allows the manhole to be placed in "your" property. BT normally do not place manholes and duct runs like this in private property.

[NAJ]

Legally I suspect you could go after them, but is it worth the faff? It may be your land but it's certainly not used as a garden, if anything it looks like a grassy verge. Does the council cut the grass or do you do it?

I've got a similar situation, but with a power pole - my garden wall is set back in line with the neighbour's, but according to the power company (and indeed the deeds) the pole is on my land. I had to give permission and sign a form for them to replace it with a taller one, which I did, quite happily.

Like you, I have grass outside my wall and the council strims it every month. No complaints here!

Thank you for your response.
As to whether its worth it we have yet to hear from the Highways. That will make a difference.
We cut the grass - definitely not them.
The neighbours know and recognise that their section in-front of their wall is the councils - they are unable to do anything with it. Ours is different.
Will keep you informed.
Kindest regards,

Nicholas

[NAJ]

Hi there,
We live next to a road and the speed limit has just been changed. Highways have put a sign in our front garden without seeking or getting our permission. Note the wall meets inline with the neighbours stone hedge.
Small_20230706_190759.jpg
On the land registry its clear the sign falls within our boundary. I have raised it with Highways.
Land Registry.png
Anyone have experience of this happening before or know the legal perspectives on this?
Kind regards,

Nicholas

Land registry electronic plans are not definitive. A copy of the plans with the property deeds is the definitive document.
The highway extends to the highway boundary. That boundary looks like the wall in the photo.
In the background it looks like a BT manhole and ducts in the verge. To back your claim you should be able to point to an easement agreement in your deeds that allows the manhole to be placed in "your" property. BT normally do not place manholes and duct runs like this in private property.

Thank you for your response. The pole and manhole are on the neighbours side. Their front is owned by the counsel.
So there will not be anything showing on deeds we have site of. Again, they are different as shown by the land registry.
I guess this will need some more research.
Kindest regards,
Nicholas

[Bomag]

Hi there,
We live next to a road and the speed limit has just been changed. Highways have put a sign in our front garden without seeking or getting our permission. Note the wall meets inline with the neighbours stone hedge.
Small_20230706_190759.jpg
On the land registry its clear the sign falls within our boundary. I have raised it with Highways.
Land Registry.png
Anyone have experience of this happening before or know the legal perspectives on this?
Kind regards,

Nicholas

Land registry electronic plans are not definitive. A copy of the plans with the property deeds is the definitive document.
The highway extends to the highway boundary. That boundary looks like the wall in the photo.
In the background it looks like a BT manhole and ducts in the verge. To back your claim you should be able to point to an easement agreement in your deeds that allows the manhole to be placed in "your" property. BT normally do not place manholes and duct runs like this in private property.

Thank you for your response. The pole and manhole are on the neighbours side. Their front is owned by the counsel.
So there will not be anything showing on deeds we have site of. Again, they are different as shown by the land registry.
I guess this will need some more research.
Kindest regards,
Nicholas

You would need to check the position of the boundary of the highway not just your property - you may own the land under the road to the centre line but if the verge is part of the road then they have power to place a sign. The authority also has some powers to enter private property in respect of traffic signs - see Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 Section 64 onwards. On the assumption that this is not part of the highway then the most likely result is the correct paperwork being completed to give the authority powers to place the sign. You may persuade them to buy the strip of land but I doubt the DV will give this a significant value.

[RichardA35]

Hi there,
We live next to a road and the speed limit has just been changed. Highways have put a sign in our front garden without seeking or getting our permission. Note the wall meets inline with the neighbours stone hedge.
Small_20230706_190759.jpg
On the land registry its clear the sign falls within our boundary. I have raised it with Highways.
Land Registry.png
Anyone have experience of this happening before or know the legal perspectives on this?
Kind regards,

Nicholas

Land registry electronic plans are not definitive. A copy of the plans with the property deeds is the definitive document.
The highway extends to the highway boundary. That boundary looks like the wall in the photo.
In the background it looks like a BT manhole and ducts in the verge. To back your claim you should be able to point to an easement agreement in your deeds that allows the manhole to be placed in "your" property. BT normally do not place manholes and duct runs like this in private property.

Thank you for your response. The pole and manhole are on the neighbours side. Their front is owned by the counsel.
So there will not be anything showing on deeds we have site of. Again, they are different as shown by the land registry.
I guess this will need some more research.
Kindest regards,
Nicholas

In my experience the Land Registry electronic plans are often incorrect. In one instance I know of, a boundary was 7m out from the deeds plans.
The ownership is a different matter to whether the strip is within the highway. It is quite possible for a landowner to own the land and subsoil (beneath 2 spits) but that the land has been dedicated as a highway and there are rights for the highway authority to carry out its function - such as installing signs.

[AAndy]

I've had signs put up on my land without seeking my permission.

My suggestion is just remove them and give them back to the authority.

fwiw , legally, my boundary is the Tarmac of the road however there is a covenant that restricts me putting a boundary fence or anything within 1m of that tarmac....so there is a 1m strip of land all around to my fence....and that signage is in direct violation of that covenant.

[M4Simon]

The ownership is a different matter to whether the strip is within the highway. It is quite possible for a landowner to own the land and subsoil (beneath 2 spits) but that the land has been dedicated as a highway and there are rights for the highway authority to carry out its function - such as installing signs.

This. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to explain to a client that just because they own the land doesn't mean they can do what they like with it if it falls within the public highway.

Simon

[AAndy]

The ownership is a different matter to whether the strip is within the highway. It is quite possible for a landowner to own the land and subsoil (beneath 2 spits) but that the land has been dedicated as a highway and there are rights for the highway authority to carry out its function - such as installing signs.

This. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to explain to a client that just because they own the land doesn't mean they can do what they like with it if it falls within the public highway.

Simon

So how has the land 'become' 'dedicated' 'public' 'highway' without consent from the owner. What is the legal process you are referring to?

[cb a1]

So how has the land 'become' 'dedicated' 'public' 'highway' without consent from the owner. What is the legal process you are referring to?

IANAL and I'm not based in England or Wales. This is dredging up my recollection of stuff I was taught in a module on my MSc last century but hasn't been relevant to my work since. If I've got stuff wrong, hopefully other Sabristi will correct me

I would expect that the current legislation covering this would, if in England or Wales, be the Highways Act 1980, Part 3 (and subsequent amendments). Obviously many homes and roads were built before 1980, so one would have to go digging through the relevant highway act of the time for what the legal process would have been in the past.

For many new roads, the highways or roads authority will typically buy the land for the road, but my understanding is that the vast majority of roads are owned by whoever owns the adjacent property (see Bomag's earlier post about owning up to the centreline) but the relevant highway authority has the powers under the Highways Act 1980 (in England and Wales) for what it can do within the Public Right of Way (PROW) boundary. PROW boundaries can be found here although I expect many of the datasets will be caveated that they should not be relied upon for legal purposes.

[AAndy]

So how has the land 'become' 'dedicated' 'public' 'highway' without consent from the owner. What is the legal process you are referring to?

IANAL and I'm not based in England or Wales. This is dredging up my recollection of stuff I was taught in a module on my MSc last century but hasn't been relevant to my work since. If I've got stuff wrong, hopefully other Sabristi will correct me

I would expect that the current legislation covering this would, if in England or Wales, be the Highways Act 1980, Part 3 (and subsequent amendments). Obviously many homes and roads were built before 1980, so one would have to go digging through the relevant highway act of the time for what the legal process would have been in the past.

For many new roads, the highways or roads authority will typically buy the land for the road, but my understanding is that the vast majority of roads are owned by whoever owns the adjacent property (see Bomag's earlier post about owning up to the centreline) but the relevant highway authority has the powers under the Highways Act 1980 (in England and Wales) for what it can do within the Public Right of Way (PROW) boundary. PROW boundaries can be found here although I expect many of the datasets will be caveated that they should not be relied upon for legal purposes.

Thank you, excellent explanation.