Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
Moderator: Site Management Team
- FosseWay
- Assistant Site Manager
- Posts: 19721
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 22:26
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
Unfortunately, Liechtenstein suffers from the same paranoia as Germany regarding Google Streetview, so there are no pictures
The road from Vaduz to Malbun passes through the Gnalp-Steg tunnel, which itself is a bypass of the original road that led over the mountains via Sücka, including a very short tunnel of its own. The tunnel is wide enough for two fairly narrow lanes, but its roof is semicircular, meaning that buses and lorries have to use the middle of the road. To prevent mishaps, there are traffic lights at either end whose default state is flashing amber at both ends, but which react when you approach them in a large vehicle. I only travelled the road in the bus (several times over three days) and every time the bus approached either entry the flashing amber changed to solid amber and then red, giving green when any traffic already in the tunnel had cleared.
I've not encountered this kind of dynamic traffic light before, which not only detects an approaching vehicle (there are plenty of those), but also determines its action based on the size of said vehicle. It must also detect vehicles coming in the other direction, even if they're small enough not to trigger the one-way feature, because sometimes it cycled quickly from flashing amber - amber - red - green, and other times there was a delay for oncoming vehicles. I wonder how reliable it is at detecting that a cyclist has entered the tunnel but not left before letting the bus through?
The road from Vaduz to Malbun passes through the Gnalp-Steg tunnel, which itself is a bypass of the original road that led over the mountains via Sücka, including a very short tunnel of its own. The tunnel is wide enough for two fairly narrow lanes, but its roof is semicircular, meaning that buses and lorries have to use the middle of the road. To prevent mishaps, there are traffic lights at either end whose default state is flashing amber at both ends, but which react when you approach them in a large vehicle. I only travelled the road in the bus (several times over three days) and every time the bus approached either entry the flashing amber changed to solid amber and then red, giving green when any traffic already in the tunnel had cleared.
I've not encountered this kind of dynamic traffic light before, which not only detects an approaching vehicle (there are plenty of those), but also determines its action based on the size of said vehicle. It must also detect vehicles coming in the other direction, even if they're small enough not to trigger the one-way feature, because sometimes it cycled quickly from flashing amber - amber - red - green, and other times there was a delay for oncoming vehicles. I wonder how reliable it is at detecting that a cyclist has entered the tunnel but not left before letting the bus through?
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
I’m not surprised really. Germany are security conscious since a certain Austrian damaged their worldwide reputation in the 1930s and 1940s, and Liechtenstein have their own issues. I don’t like monarchs in general, and I certainly don’t really like billionaire monarchs who use Agnatic Primogeniture.FosseWay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 15:08 Unfortunately, Liechtenstein suffers from the same paranoia as Germany regarding Google Streetview, so there are no pictures
The road from Vaduz to Malbun passes through the Gnalp-Steg tunnel, which itself is a bypass of the original road that led over the mountains via Sücka, including a very short tunnel of its own. The tunnel is wide enough for two fairly narrow lanes, but its roof is semicircular, meaning that buses and lorries have to use the middle of the road. To prevent mishaps, there are traffic lights at either end whose default state is flashing amber at both ends, but which react when you approach them in a large vehicle. I only travelled the road in the bus (several times over three days) and every time the bus approached either entry the flashing amber changed to solid amber and then red, giving green when any traffic already in the tunnel had cleared.
I've not encountered this kind of dynamic traffic light before, which not only detects an approaching vehicle (there are plenty of those), but also determines its action based on the size of said vehicle. It must also detect vehicles coming in the other direction, even if they're small enough not to trigger the one-way feature, because sometimes it cycled quickly from flashing amber - amber - red - green, and other times there was a delay for oncoming vehicles. I wonder how reliable it is at detecting that a cyclist has entered the tunnel but not left before letting the bus through?
T97 - Glencoe to Connell
The artist formerly known as Penguin2014
The artist formerly known as Penguin2014
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
I noted the interesting traffic light set up when I was there in 2019. I have quite a few photos of both the new tunnel (and the approach signage) as well as the old tunnel so I'll give them a re-edit and send them over to you.
- Vierwielen
- Member
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
A few years ago, when workng in Germany, I took an evening walk in the village where I was staying and happened to rtigger a speed detection signal which told me that I was travelling at 6 km/h. I am either very fat (which I deny) or the sensor was very sensitive. Such a sensor could undoubtedly sense a cyclist and there might even be furhter sensors withn the tunnel.FosseWay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 15:08 Unfortunately, Liechtenstein suffers from the same paranoia as Germany regarding Google Streetview, so there are no pictures
The road from Vaduz to Malbun passes through the Gnalp-Steg tunnel, which itself is a bypass of the original road that led over the mountains via Sücka, including a very short tunnel of its own. The tunnel is wide enough for two fairly narrow lanes, but its roof is semicircular, meaning that buses and lorries have to use the middle of the road. To prevent mishaps, there are traffic lights at either end whose default state is flashing amber at both ends, but which react when you approach them in a large vehicle. I only travelled the road in the bus (several times over three days) and every time the bus approached either entry the flashing amber changed to solid amber and then red, giving green when any traffic already in the tunnel had cleared.
I've not encountered this kind of dynamic traffic light before, which not only detects an approaching vehicle (there are plenty of those), but also determines its action based on the size of said vehicle. It must also detect vehicles coming in the other direction, even if they're small enough not to trigger the one-way feature, because sometimes it cycled quickly from flashing amber - amber - red - green, and other times there was a delay for oncoming vehicles. I wonder how reliable it is at detecting that a cyclist has entered the tunnel but not left before letting the bus through?
- FosseWay
- Assistant Site Manager
- Posts: 19721
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 22:26
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
Oh, sure, I don't dispute that the technology exists to detect cyclists. I probably trigger "Your speed is" LED signs more often than not when cycling, and with most of the ones that don't trigger, it's probably because my speed is so far below the speed limit that it's out of the useful/relevant range that it's been set up to detect. It's more that my experience of traffic lights that are supposed to change when they detect an approaching vehicle is, well, "mixed" is very much at the charitable end of the range of adjectives I could use. Particularly since in this case the result of the detection is displayed to others, not me. At a standard UK traffic light where this happens, the lack of detection is directly visible to me, it defaults to safe, and I can decide what I'll do about it.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 18:50 A few years ago, when workng in Germany, I took an evening walk in the village where I was staying and happened to rtigger a speed detection signal which told me that I was travelling at 6 km/h. I am either very fat (which I deny) or the sensor was very sensitive. Such a sensor could undoubtedly sense a cyclist and there might even be furhter sensors withn the tunnel.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
Google seems to have covered much of Germany fairly recently. I think Liechtenstein, Guernsey and Austria remain off limits due to laws against Street View style tools, which have never officially existed in Germany.DanT97 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 21:32I’m not surprised really. Germany are security conscious since a certain Austrian damaged their worldwide reputation in the 1930s and 1940s, and Liechtenstein have their own issues. I don’t like monarchs in general, and I certainly don’t really like billionaire monarchs who use Agnatic Primogeniture.FosseWay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 15:08 Unfortunately, Liechtenstein suffers from the same paranoia as Germany regarding Google Streetview, so there are no pictures
The road from Vaduz to Malbun passes through the Gnalp-Steg tunnel, which itself is a bypass of the original road that led over the mountains via Sücka, including a very short tunnel of its own. The tunnel is wide enough for two fairly narrow lanes, but its roof is semicircular, meaning that buses and lorries have to use the middle of the road. To prevent mishaps, there are traffic lights at either end whose default state is flashing amber at both ends, but which react when you approach them in a large vehicle. I only travelled the road in the bus (several times over three days) and every time the bus approached either entry the flashing amber changed to solid amber and then red, giving green when any traffic already in the tunnel had cleared.
I've not encountered this kind of dynamic traffic light before, which not only detects an approaching vehicle (there are plenty of those), but also determines its action based on the size of said vehicle. It must also detect vehicles coming in the other direction, even if they're small enough not to trigger the one-way feature, because sometimes it cycled quickly from flashing amber - amber - red - green, and other times there was a delay for oncoming vehicles. I wonder how reliable it is at detecting that a cyclist has entered the tunnel but not left before letting the bus through?
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
- Vierwielen
- Member
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
The City of Frankfurt has been visible for a long time, but not, as far as I coudl tell, teh rest of Germany.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:16Google seems to have covered much of Germany fairly recently. I think Liechtenstein, Guernsey and Austria remain off limits due to laws against Street View style tools, which have never officially existed in Germany.DanT97 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 21:32I’m not surprised really. Germany are security conscious since a certain Austrian damaged their worldwide reputation in the 1930s and 1940s, and Liechtenstein have their own issues. I don’t like monarchs in general, and I certainly don’t really like billionaire monarchs who use Agnatic Primogeniture.FosseWay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 15:08 Unfortunately, Liechtenstein suffers from the same paranoia as Germany regarding Google Streetview, so there are no pictures
The road from Vaduz to Malbun passes through the Gnalp-Steg tunnel, which itself is a bypass of the original road that led over the mountains via Sücka, including a very short tunnel of its own. The tunnel is wide enough for two fairly narrow lanes, but its roof is semicircular, meaning that buses and lorries have to use the middle of the road. To prevent mishaps, there are traffic lights at either end whose default state is flashing amber at both ends, but which react when you approach them in a large vehicle. I only travelled the road in the bus (several times over three days) and every time the bus approached either entry the flashing amber changed to solid amber and then red, giving green when any traffic already in the tunnel had cleared.
I've not encountered this kind of dynamic traffic light before, which not only detects an approaching vehicle (there are plenty of those), but also determines its action based on the size of said vehicle. It must also detect vehicles coming in the other direction, even if they're small enough not to trigger the one-way feature, because sometimes it cycled quickly from flashing amber - amber - red - green, and other times there was a delay for oncoming vehicles. I wonder how reliable it is at detecting that a cyclist has entered the tunnel but not left before letting the bus through?
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
Germany has started becoming widely viewable in the past couple of days. It also appears that Austria became viewable relatively recently too.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 21:48The City of Frankfurt has been visible for a long time, but not, as far as I coudl tell, teh rest of Germany.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:16Google seems to have covered much of Germany fairly recently. I think Liechtenstein, Guernsey and Austria remain off limits due to laws against Street View style tools, which have never officially existed in Germany.DanT97 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 21:32
I’m not surprised really. Germany are security conscious since a certain Austrian damaged their worldwide reputation in the 1930s and 1940s, and Liechtenstein have their own issues. I don’t like monarchs in general, and I certainly don’t really like billionaire monarchs who use Agnatic Primogeniture.
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
Switzerland is also a recent addition, to the extent that GSV coverage of that country is not yet universal.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 21:53Germany has started becoming widely viewable in the past couple of days. It also appears that Austria became viewable relatively recently too.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 21:48The City of Frankfurt has been visible for a long time, but not, as far as I coudl tell, teh rest of Germany.
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
I've always found the German speaking world's grudge against Street View a little weird considering how nearly every other Western country has had full coverage for 10-15 years. In the UK there were a small number of villages that were angry with Google, however most people on the whole were broadly supportive of Street View's launch and many were quite excited in the runup to its launch. I think Google covered certain major cities in Britain back in 2008 and then did widespread coverage in 2009. At the time there seemed to be a roughly 6 month period between Google taking the images and them going live, but this now seems to be a matter of weeks.Owain wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 16:33Switzerland is also a recent addition, to the extent that GSV coverage of that country is not yet universal.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 21:53Germany has started becoming widely viewable in the past couple of days. It also appears that Austria became viewable relatively recently too.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 21:48
The City of Frankfurt has been visible for a long time, but not, as far as I coudl tell, teh rest of Germany.
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
- Mark Hewitt
- Member
- Posts: 31443
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:54
- Location: Chester-le-Street
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
Owain wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 16:33Switzerland is also a recent addition, to the extent that GSV coverage of that country is not yet universal.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 21:53Germany has started becoming widely viewable in the past couple of days. It also appears that Austria became viewable relatively recently too.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 21:48
The City of Frankfurt has been visible for a long time, but not, as far as I coudl tell, teh rest of Germany.
I haven't checked but I was using Google Streetview to orient myself to Zurich before I visited in 2010, so it isn't *that recent*
- Vierwielen
- Member
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
- Location: Hampshire
Re: Liechtenstein: Schrödinger's traffic light
I certainly travelled through Basle a few times in teh last few years usign a "Googlecar", but came to an abrupt halt at the German border. I checked a few minutes ago and that is still the case - the map might be as little as 100 metres but the Googlecar will not let you cross the German border!Mark Hewitt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 17:01
I haven't checked but I was using Google Streetview to orient myself to Zurich before I visited in 2010, so it isn't *that recent*