Given they were the standard edge marking except at hazards prior to 1994, they were everywhere.
Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
Bryn
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She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
This is not an original slip road. The original junction was a diamond, the curved link road was constructed to replace it. Only the bridge and a stump of the old northbound entry slip road are original to the A74 here.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:19 Some of 3 of the 4 Eaglesfield junction sliproads are also still there. It's probably the most intact of the former GSJs on the A74, largely because it received an offline motorway upgrade when most of the other GSJs were on stretches that received online upgrades:
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.0535738 ... ?entry=ttu
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
I was referring to the northbound entry slip road, not the modern curved one. What I meant was that it still clearly looks like a former diamond junction, and you can still make out traces of the northbound exit and southbound entry sliproads as well as the fairly intact northbound entry.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 21:48This is not an original slip road. The original junction was a diamond, the curved link road was constructed to replace it. Only the bridge and a stump of the old northbound entry slip road are original to the A74 here.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:19 Some of 3 of the 4 Eaglesfield junction sliproads are also still there. It's probably the most intact of the former GSJs on the A74, largely because it received an offline motorway upgrade when most of the other GSJs were on stretches that received online upgrades:
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.0535738 ... ?entry=ttu
RJDG14
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
There were still some on the road approaching Bath from Lansdown until a couple of years ago. I assume it hadn't been repainted since the early 1990s. I don't recall seeing many such markings during the 2000s so I'd imagine most disappeared fairly quickly after 1994.
The Republic of Ireland still uses dashed edge markings on non-motorways, as do a lot of European countries.
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
I passed my test in 1994 (almost 30 years! ) and yet I don't remember seeing them anywhere in the area where I grew up. I knew they existed, because I was obsessed with roads and had read the Highway Code, but they seemed to be a feature that I only got to see if we went on a long drive somewhere.
I don't remember any on the A48 - which was still a trunk road at that point - nor on any of the B-roads I used to drive in the Forest of Dean. The only road I can really remember having any edge markings at all was the A466, and they were usually the continuous rather than dashed version.
I do, however, remember this junction having black-and-white kerbstones, albeit faded ones! Look closely and you can still see them...
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
You'll see black and white kerbstones a lot around the North West 200 track https://www.google.com/maps/@55.1882521 ... ?entry=ttuOwain wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2023 22:56I passed my test in 1994 (almost 30 years! ) and yet I don't remember seeing them anywhere in the area where I grew up. I knew they existed, because I was obsessed with roads and had read the Highway Code, but they seemed to be a feature that I only got to see if we went on a long drive somewhere.
I don't remember any on the A48 - which was still a trunk road at that point - nor on any of the B-roads I used to drive in the Forest of Dean. The only road I can really remember having any edge markings at all was the A466, and they were usually the continuous rather than dashed version.
I do, however, remember this junction having black-and-white kerbstones, albeit faded ones! Look closely and you can still see them...
Otherwise sometimes you see old dashed lines at the side of the carraigeway where the painted over line has faded away. It made sense as in you could stop there (at your own risk) whereas solid lines mean you cannot stop.
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
Black and white painted kerbs used to be common at roundabouts and rural junctions, but I think they went out with the striped poles for signs and traffic lights post-Worboys. There used to be black and white kerbs here (the paint has almost completely worn away now), the strange thing is this junction was built in the early 1970s, long after the practice went out of fashion.
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
You still see sectarian related painted kerbs in parts of Northern Ireland - I believe Newbuildings is an example of a village with Loyalist (red/white/blue) ones, for example. I can't think of anywhere with Nationalist (green/white/orange) painted kerbs off the top of my head, but I'm sure they exist.MotorwayGuy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 18:38 Black and white painted kerbs used to be common at roundabouts and rural junctions, but I think they went out with the striped poles for signs and traffic lights post-Worboys. There used to be black and white kerbs here (the paint has almost completely worn away now), the strange thing is this junction was built in the early 1970s, long after the practice went out of fashion.
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
Did this part of the former road receive an online upgrade? From what I can tell the road in that photo roughly matches the alignment of the modern A74(M) as opposed to the B7076, and I can't see any trace of a former carriageway beside the B7076 where this photo would have been taken, making me suspect that this portion of it was a newly built access road.orudge wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 21:35 https://x.com/scotroadarchive/status/17 ... 8206149845
A lovely A74 RCS.
The A74 looks a fairly reasonable A road standard in that picture, much like most of the stretch from Carlisle to Gretna. I think it was like this for much of its length, though the portion around Lesmahagow was pretty poor.
This is the view today of where I believe that photo was taken:
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.3872791 ... ?entry=ttu
RJDG14
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
SABRE Maps will tell you exactly - using the Map Fader we can see the B7076 here is offline: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... 3&layer=41RJDG14 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 00:10Did this part of the former road receive an online upgrade? From what I can tell the road in that photo roughly matches the alignment of the modern A74(M) as opposed to the B7076, and I can't see any trace of a former carriageway beside the B7076 where this photo would have been taken, making me suspect that this portion of it was a newly built access road.orudge wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 21:35 https://x.com/scotroadarchive/status/17 ... 8206149845
A lovely A74 RCS.
The A74 looks a fairly reasonable A road standard in that picture, much like most of the stretch from Carlisle to Gretna. I think it was like this for much of its length, though the portion around Lesmahagow was pretty poor.
This is the view today of where I believe that photo was taken:
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.3872791 ... ?entry=ttu
This has been discussed on previous pages. Several lengths of the B7076 are not original to the A74 dualling either for tie-ins or whatever such as being returned to pre-bypass/dualling alignments (e.g. Abington and other villages), but this is the most significant length where the B road is new build.
Bryn
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She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
For those who want to see how the A74 looked at the Harthope Viaduct in the 1980s and early 1990s, here's a photo, I think looking southbound:
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/26/635/
This was the same view shortly after the 1960s road was first opened, showing how it originally looked without hard strips:
https://live.staticflickr.com/8485/8232 ... 77e6_b.jpg
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/26/635/
This was the same view shortly after the 1960s road was first opened, showing how it originally looked without hard strips:
https://live.staticflickr.com/8485/8232 ... 77e6_b.jpg
RJDG14
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:
https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1
It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.
https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1
It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
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If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
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Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
The old A74 carriageways were given slightly wider haunches to accommodate hard strips where it hadn't already been done post-motorway works. These are technically cycle lanes in places.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 04:27 The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:
https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1
It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
This is a photo of "Elvanfoot Filling Station" from around 1980. Was this the northbound filling station that is visible in that photo on Twitter/X?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 09:23The old A74 carriageways were given slightly wider haunches to accommodate hard strips where it hadn't already been done post-motorway works. These are technically cycle lanes in places.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 04:27 The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:
https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1
It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4911/4588 ... cd28_b.jpg
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
Probably is yes.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 14:25This is a photo of "Elvanfoot Filling Station" from around 1980. Was this the northbound filling station that is visible in that photo on Twitter/X?Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 09:23The old A74 carriageways were given slightly wider haunches to accommodate hard strips where it hadn't already been done post-motorway works. These are technically cycle lanes in places.RJDG14 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 04:27 The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:
https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1
It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4911/4588 ... cd28_b.jpg
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
And that reminds me of an incident. It was 1995 and we were in the first year of our startup ISP. There was a trade show in London and a group, including two of the senior staff, had gone down (from Shetland) there in a hired van.
On the way back, the van ran out of fuel somewhere past Beattock and the big boss set off walking along the A74 northbound with a petrol can. After a little while the police stopped beside him, asking what he was doing.
When he told them they laughed and said he had a very very long walk ahead of him, and the nearest petrol station was only a few miles in the other direction. They gave him a lift back there.
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
I'm not aware of any of the A74 having a ban on pedestrians based on the photos I've seen, though it would have certainly been a little weird walking along it with a petrol can. It was probably kind of them to have given him a lift to the nearby petrol station.nowster wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 22:00And that reminds me of an incident. It was 1995 and we were in the first year of our startup ISP. There was a trade show in London and a group, including two of the senior staff, had gone down (from Shetland) there in a hired van.
On the way back, the van ran out of fuel somewhere past Beattock and the big boss set off walking along the A74 northbound with a petrol can. After a little while the police stopped beside him, asking what he was doing.
When he told them they laughed and said he had a very very long walk ahead of him, and the nearest petrol station was only a few miles in the other direction. They gave him a lift back there.
RJDG14
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
See my Geograph profile here - http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/74193
The Swindon Files - Swindon's modern history - http://rjdg14.altervista.org/swindon/
----
If I break a policy designed only to protect me and nobody else, have I really broken anything?
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
No ban on pedestrians, just a little lecture about how silly he was for running out of fuel and also going the wrong way, and probably a nice tale to relate to their colleagues back at the station.
Re: Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?
Yes, that would've been an unpleasant walk all the same.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck