A38 Derby Junctions

[jackal]

We are mostly on the same page, then. The residual disagreement is that you still posit a connection between induced demand and disbenefit:

"there will be an increase of traffic on the A38 over the long term because of the induced demand, which may diminish the benefits of the scheme"

For the reasons I've given, induced demand rather increases the benefits.

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

We are mostly on the same page, then. The residual disagreement is that you still posit a connection between induced demand and disbenefit:

"there will be an increase of traffic on the A38 over the long term because of the induced demand, which may diminish the benefits of the scheme"

For the reasons I've given, induced demand rather increases the benefits.

I don't believe that the induced demand is all-bad too, and it's good that more traffic is being moved onto the A38 to take pressure off of the residential streets in Derby. What I was meaning to convey with that statement is that this is how TAN would view induced demand, in that "if traffic increases over the long-term when new roads or junction modifications are made, then why bother to do it in the first place?" To clarify, I do believe that we need new roads and better junctions, but TAN does have a point in more extreme cases, but this is not an extreme case.

[Truvelo]

Schemes like this should be promoted more often. There are countless other problem junctions causing delays which could easily be fixed by GSJing them. Examples include the Shrewsbury Bypass where both the A5 and A49 suffer from tailbacks, the A49 more so where the eastern bypass can be at a standstill at certain times of the day. GSJing the roundabouts would remove most of this queuing.

There are many junctions on local authority roads which could also be fixed this way although budget restraints means they are unlikely to ever get done.

[JF2309]

You might not like that TAN are trying to stop it, or you might take the view that inducing extra local car journeys is OK or will be minimal and that it’s no reason to stop the project going ahead, but I don’t think there’s much mileage in making out that they’re idiots who don’t understand what the project will achieve.

This.

These groups know their brief as well as the local authority/national body trying to get something built. They’re no mugs and shouldn’t be treated as such or with any animosity. They’re not trying to stop this scheme just to annoy you or to stop green circles becoming green dots on your AA Map, they will have genuine legitimate concerns about how this scheme will impact their lives day in and day out because they will have to live with it whilst we just whizz through it in about 10 seconds every so often.

[Big L]

…the A38 does form part of the strategic route between Birmingham and Sheffield…

Southbound, the signposted route (just before the A38 turning) is M1 A42 M42 M6. I don’t recall seeing any signs for Sheffield anywhere near Birmingham.

[Bryn666]

We are mostly on the same page, then. The residual disagreement is that you still posit a connection between induced demand and disbenefit:

"there will be an increase of traffic on the A38 over the long term because of the induced demand, which may diminish the benefits of the scheme"

For the reasons I've given, induced demand rather increases the benefits.

I don't believe that the induced demand is all-bad too, and it's good that more traffic is being moved onto the A38 to take pressure off of the residential streets in Derby. What I was meaning to convey with that statement is that this is how TAN would view induced demand, in that "if traffic increases over the long-term when new roads or junction modifications are made, then why bother to do it in the first place?" To clarify, I do believe that we need new roads and better junctions, but TAN does have a point in more extreme cases, but this is not an extreme case.

With roads like this the real aim is safety improvements - a GSJ with proper NMU facilities to allow non-drivers to get across either side would be an overall positive.

Where I suspect TAN are coming from is that we know from experience that NH will do everything to avoid providing for non-drivers unless forced to do so or if they can rinse a third party for it (see the M49 J1 debacle which has fully segregated cycle routes where a NH funded job would've seen signal controlled slip roads and toucans).

If you can walk or cycle across a major road then you actually also induce walking and cycling more than driving - see what happens at virtually every urban intersection in the Netherlands...

[Owain]

As a long-distance traveller, I have to say that I like the A38.

Even if the junctions near Derby are a bit of a fiddle, I've never really experienced any trouble on it. It's much more interesting and more enjoyable (from Leeds) than either the M62-M6 or the M1-Route 42.

It's obviously very old, but since the construction of the motorway network around it, the single biggest problem is that it doesn't really connect with anything at the southern end.

When you get there, you don't really want to pay the M6 Toll if you're only going to use that road for a junction or three, and that means your only options for anywhere other than Lichfield or Birmingham seem to be the A446 or the A5.

[Truvelo]

As a long-distance traveller, I have to say that I like the A38.

Even if the junctions near Derby are a bit of a fiddle, I've never really experienced any trouble on it. It's much more interesting and more enjoyable (from Leeds) than either the M62-M6 or the M1-Route 42.

The problem at the moment is the roadworks near Lichfield. It is down to one lane northbound and there is a queue on the approach.

As for the southern end you can blame the M6 Toll for that. As it competes with the toll road there is no way on earth the flyover at Bassetts Pole will ever be built. The two nasty roundabouts south of Bassetts Pole are also designed to be as cheap as possible and make the A38 less attractive. But even with this butchery the A38 is often a better way into Birmingham from places such as Lichfield, Burntwood, Cannock than the M6.

[A9Dan]

https://www.highwaysmagazine.co.uk/Derb ... enge/13667

Judicial review granted on the grounds that the decision to approve the scheme was based on an outdated economic assessment from 2019. Trial expected to be around mid-2024.

[jackal]

https://www.highwaysmagazine.co.uk/Derb ... enge/13667

Judicial review granted on the grounds that the decision to approve the scheme was based on an outdated economic assessment from 2019. Trial expected to be around mid-2024.

It is only permission to apply for judicial review that has been granted.

[xnx]

As a long-distance traveller, I have to say that I like the A38.

Even if the junctions near Derby are a bit of a fiddle, I've never really experienced any trouble on it. It's much more interesting and more enjoyable (from Leeds) than either the M62-M6 or the M1-Route 42.

The problem at the moment is the roadworks near Lichfield. It is down to one lane northbound and there is a queue on the approach.

As for the southern end you can blame the M6 Toll for that. As it competes with the toll road there is no way on earth the flyover at Bassetts Pole will ever be built. The two nasty roundabouts south of Bassetts Pole are also designed to be as cheap as possible and make the A38 less attractive. But even with this butchery the A38 is often a better way into Birmingham from places such as Lichfield, Burntwood, Cannock than the M6.

I complained about those crazy roundabouts when built on the A38 and my reply was something stupid about needing to slow down motorbikes. I knew the real an$wer as they also made the A5 garbage at Cannock with a new road with sub par speed limit. I would not have complained if the M6 Toll was free.

I hope Derby gets done as traffic is not going to get lighter and the alternative train service from Lichfield to Derby does not exist.