Coordination between TfL and Highways England?

[Scratchwood]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

[Bomag]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

Both TfL and NH occupancy systems would not normally pick this up. When I was doing the resigning of the A102 approaches in 1999 Blackwell tunnel operations were less than concerned about what was happening past the last sign they controlled. In any event the requirement for signed diversion routes is that it must not go through any additional tolls, charges or restrictions.

[RichardA35]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

Why would the TfL recommend using Dartford Crossing to cross the river? TfL are a local highway authority for local people.
The recommendations on their press release are:
"Drivers are advised to plan their routes in advance, checking before they travel so they can consider any other potential traffic impacts or restrictions, such as the height and weight limits at Rotherhithe Tunnel and Tower Bridge, both of which are outside the Congestion Charge zone."

[skiddaw05]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

Why would the TfL recommend using Dartford Crossing to cross the river? TfL are a local highway authority for local people.
The recommendations on their press release are:
"Drivers are advised to plan their routes in advance, checking before they travel so they can consider any other potential traffic impacts or restrictions, such as the height and weight limits at Rotherhithe Tunnel and Tower Bridge, both of which are outside the Congestion Charge zone."

It's not at all uncommon for LA road closures to have part of their official diversion using NH roads

[WHBM]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

Even at other times the recommended diversion when the Dartford Bridge is closed, on the fixed diversion signage in Essex that can be opened up, indicates a complete circuit of the M25

HE and DfT appear to actively hate one another. Probably done deliberately, with sniggering.

I'm surprised HE have not removed London, or any destination inside the M25, off their signage,

[jnty]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

Even at other times the recommended diversion when the Dartford Bridge is closed, on the fixed diversion signage in Essex that can be opened up, indicates a complete circuit of the M25

HE and DfT appear to actively hate one another. Probably done deliberately, with sniggering.

I'm surprised HE have not removed London, or any destination inside the M25, off their signage,

Didn't we have a big rammy last year because HE have removed London from (new) signage?

[Chris5156]

Even at other times the recommended diversion when the Dartford Bridge is closed, on the fixed diversion signage in Essex that can be opened up, indicates a complete circuit of the M25

The alternative is to actively direct traffic through Blackwall (which is already overloaded, and has restrictions that would prevent some of the vehicles permitted at Dartford to get through), or worse, Rotherhithe, the Woolwich Ferry or Tower Bridge. None of those are really viable and there is no good option. Round the M25 is probably the least bad, considering that it has to work for large volumes of traffic and all types of vehicle, and the authorities will well understand that a lot of traffic will not need the diversion route and much will go to Blackwall anyway.

[Scratchwood]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

Why would the TfL recommend using Dartford Crossing to cross the river? TfL are a local highway authority for local people.
The recommendations on their press release are:
"Drivers are advised to plan their routes in advance, checking before they travel so they can consider any other potential traffic impacts or restrictions, such as the height and weight limits at Rotherhithe Tunnel and Tower Bridge, both of which are outside the Congestion Charge zone."

It's not a question of whether one alternative is recommended. The lower Thames has so few crossings, that if one is closed, then traffic will automatically gravitate to the other main one.

Especially as the Rotherhithe tunnel and Tower Bridge both have weight limits (and severe size limits for the former).

[darkcape]

It's not at all uncommon for LA road closures to have part of their official diversion using NH roads

Only by prior agreement & vice-versa. The local authority on my current project meet with HE to coordinate works every month, I imagine a similar arrangement is in place with TFL

[qwertyK]

Last weekend there was no southbound Blackwall Tunnel due to ongoing works integrating the Silvertown crossing (strictly speaking the northbound tunnel was closed with northbound traffic using the southbound tunnel).

The obvious diversion to cross the Thames is along the A13 to use the Dartford crossing. Except that on Saturday night, the QE2 bridge was also closed, leading to even worse congestion than when the bridge is normally closed.

Nighttime closures have to happen, but it seems a bit careless to have both at the same time. Do TfL and HE actually talk to each other to coordinate their closures?

Even at other times the recommended diversion when the Dartford Bridge is closed, on the fixed diversion signage in Essex that can be opened up, indicates a complete circuit of the M25

HE and DfT appear to actively hate one another. Probably done deliberately, with sniggering.

I'm surprised HE have not removed London, or any destination inside the M25, off their signage,

Didn't we have a big rammy last year because HE have removed London from (new) signage?

and replace "london" with what?

[Runwell]

There must be some coordination, as whenever the A12 is shut at Margaretting at night, part of the diversion route for some reason directs traffic via the A12 and A127 (and vice-versa) to Gallows Corner, rather than take the much shorter route of the M25 between J29 and J28. This was also happening before the work at J28 for the junction upgrade stepped up as well.

[trickstat]

Even at other times the recommended diversion when the Dartford Bridge is closed, on the fixed diversion signage in Essex that can be opened up, indicates a complete circuit of the M25

The alternative is to actively direct traffic through Blackwall (which is already overloaded, and has restrictions that would prevent some of the vehicles permitted at Dartford to get through), or worse, Rotherhithe, the Woolwich Ferry or Tower Bridge. None of those are really viable and there is no good option. Round the M25 is probably the least bad, considering that it has to work for large volumes of traffic and all types of vehicle, and the authorities will well understand that a lot of traffic will not need the diversion route and much will go to Blackwall anyway.

Arguably diversions for a closure of the Dartford Crossing are a little different from most other stretches of road in that the genuinely best alternative could be a very different route. For example, from where I live on the A1(M), you have something of. a choice between going via Dartford or Heathrow for the M23. If Dartford was closed you might opt to go via Heathrow for some routes east of that.

[jnty]

Didn't we have a big rammy last year because HE have removed London from (new) signage?

and replace "london" with what?

Without wishing to get into this again, (M25) apparently.

[WHBM]

Even at other times the recommended diversion when the Dartford Bridge is closed, on the fixed diversion signage in Essex that can be opened up, indicates a complete circuit of the M25

The alternative is to actively direct traffic through Blackwall (which is already overloaded, and has restrictions that would prevent some of the vehicles permitted at Dartford to get through), or worse, Rotherhithe, the Woolwich Ferry or Tower Bridge. None of those are really viable

Well we live pretty much next to the Blackwall, and were indeed impacted by last weekend's closure on multiple trips. It seems these are carrying on every weekend for a while. Incidentally, just to put the cherry on it, part of the adjacent DLR was closed for the weekend as well. For all that the Blackwall can be overloaded, a normally 10 minute journey on Saturday took well over an hour by public transport - particularly ironic as the two locations either side of the river can see one another.

[qwertyK]

There must be some coordination, as whenever the A12 is shut at Margaretting at night, part of the diversion route for some reason directs traffic via the A12 and A127 (and vice-versa) to Gallows Corner, rather than take the much shorter route of the M25 between J29 and J28. This was also happening before the work at J28 for the junction upgrade stepped up as well.

Yeah, down the A130. Pretty sure also when the M25 has roadworks it directs traffic onto the north circ sometimes.

The congestion zone ULEZ when you enter london often tells traffic to avoid it, eg, on the m11 non compliant users are told to turn back round the redbridge roundabout and onto the m11 to get to the m25.