West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

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Phil
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Phil »

c2R wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 22:06 It's a roundabout infested abomination. Better would be to link the new developments in with the existing A10 and build a new road with no roundabouts or property frontage as a bypass to take traffic away from where the people live.
Did you not notice the bit about the road being part funded by the developer?

When a developer is contributing a large chunk of the finance they quite naturally expect that money to bring influence - and 'easy access off a by-pass' helps with the selling of houses.

Hence the usual handful of roundabouts with access into said development spoiling the scheme

If you don't want them then the Government (be it local or nation) has to be willing to stump up the cash to build the road all by themselves. However given the 'development = good / prosperity mantra and budget cuts which the Westminster Government has pushed of the past 3 / 4 decades, hell will freeze over before that happens....
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Kinitawowi »

Phil wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 23:01If you don't want them then the Government (be it local or nation) has to be willing to stump up the cash to build the road all by themselves. However given the 'development = good / prosperity mantra and budget cuts which the Westminster Government has pushed of the past 3 / 4 decades, hell will freeze over before that happens....
Also... this scheme is in Norfolk. I grew up in Hunstanton, I know this area. And I know the government aren't going to spend money on it when most of them couldn't locate it on a map. (Same reason I don't think the QE Hospital will get the investment it needs.) Why spend £65m on a road here when the same money will affect that many more people (and buy that many more votes) if they spend it in London?
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Phil »

Kinitawowi wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 23:15
Why spend £65m on a road here when the same money will affect that many more people (and buy that many more votes) if they spend it in London?
You are rather forgetting that ALL transport INCLUDING ROADS is a devolved matter - and the London Mayor is of the opposing party to that in charge at Westminster.

As such its in the interest of the governing party to NOT spend money in London and pin the blame on the current Mayor - hoping it help's 'their candidate' get elected next time round.

If we are talking about trying to buy votes with capital investment you actually to look north rather than south - the Conservatives desperately want to hang on to as many of the 'ex red wall' seats they got off labour at the last general election...
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jackal
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by jackal »

I've only just looked at this and am surprised to find I don't hate it!

It turns a terrible mess into a proper (if S2) GSJ and adds a short stretch of DC with a sensible lane drop and gain. The A47 will be a bit better than before.

While I would like to have seen another GSJ instead of the new A47 roundabout, that is not realistic for a scheme like this, and I don't think it spoils a future GSJ too badly - it would be about 1km away from Hardwick if the slips were folded to the east.

Finally, the A10 bypass is of course a good thing, though it seems to have one roundabout too many.
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Kinitawowi »

Now becoming a mess. Perhaps inevitably it's being swamped with a sea of protests because of a chicken and egg fight; they won't build the road without the houses to justify the expansion, but residents have realised that if they build the houses first they'll end up with more traffic on the already cramped existing road before there's any relief. Officially the planners have been told they can't build more than 300 houses before the new road; in practice the planning application is for 1100 houses.

This is why major road projects shouldn't be tied to housing development.
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roadtester
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by roadtester »

I think the best answer to this would be to replace the current West Winch section of the A10 with a new decent bypass unencumbered by roundabouts and local accesses and so on, and then find a way to repurpose the bypassed section to serve as the access road serving the new developments.
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skiddaw05
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by skiddaw05 »

It needs to get all the way to the A134. The remaining length of A10 to here isn't any better than the planned bypassed section
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

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skiddaw05 wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 22:14 It needs to get all the way to the A134. The remaining length of A10 to here isn't any better than the planned bypassed section
True.
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Phil »

roadtester wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 18:20 I think the best answer to this would be to replace the current West Winch section of the A10 with a new decent bypass unencumbered by roundabouts and local accesses and so on, and then find a way to repurpose the bypassed section to serve as the access road serving the new developments.
What you think is the 'best' answer and what the national Governmnt (who have totally neutered any ability for local Government to oppose it) think the 'best'* answer is are very different things...

* That is to say, housing development = always good. Housing development where the developer pays for a bit of new road = very, very good....
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roadtester
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by roadtester »

Phil wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 05:22
roadtester wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 18:20 I think the best answer to this would be to replace the current West Winch section of the A10 with a new decent bypass unencumbered by roundabouts and local accesses and so on, and then find a way to repurpose the bypassed section to serve as the access road serving the new developments.
What you think is the 'best' answer and what the national Governmnt (who have totally neutered any ability for local Government to oppose it) think the 'best'* answer is are very different things...

* That is to say, housing development = always good. Housing development where the developer pays for a bit of new road = very, very good....
Actually, the more I look at it, the crappier it seems. It's adding an additional inadequate route to work in parallel with the existing single inadequate route. If they really do build the number of houses they're talking about, I suspect it won't be long before people start saying a third route, a 'proper' bypass, is needed for through traffic to get around the whole newly created mess. As skiddaw05 has already pointed out, at the very least, any solution has to start back at the A134 roundabout.

My main use of the existing piece of road is that a few times a month I drive up the A10 and straight into King's Lynn. While it can sometimes get clogged, it is actually tolerably usable for most of the day, offering a decent, if 40-limited, straight-through run, especially if you avoid the rush hour. The thing I really dislike about the scheme is that it actually degrades the journey by adding the faff of roundabouts and a dog-leg to get to the Hardwick roundabout and into King's Lynn instead of that straight run, so for most of the day it will be worse than what's there now.

The context to this, which goes beyond the lines on the map and may not be appreciated by non-locals is that the Cambs Fens are booming, at least from a house-building point of view - I live in Ely, a little to the South, which has doubled in size in the last twenty to thirty years with not much in the way of objection. Traffic levels here have changed out of all recognition since I moved there in 1998. As I said up-thread, acceptance of new housebuilding is actually fairly high because we are one of the more spacious parts of the country. Houses are going up everywhere.

King's Lynn is not itself an enormous place but it is a very important regional centre, drawing in huge numbers of people from a large surrounding catchment area which is often short of amenities. That's why just north of the Hardwick roundabout Tesco and Sainsbury's have built enormous stores, probably among their biggest in the whole of the UK.

I think this is scheme is probably the smallest conceivable sticking plaster they think they can get away with to ward off the side-effects of growth for a few years.
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Berk
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Berk »

It would be better if this road can be designed to be “forward-looking” - anticipating a widened A47. I don’t believe the current Hardwick layout would remain once it’s finally dualled.

So that might mean using the southern portion as a tie-in back to the A10, and adding a branch on a roundabout to allow a “proper” A47 connection to be built, when required.
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Kinitawowi »

The line that caught my eye in the article was this:
West Norfolk Council has made clear that there is not a “bypass” to be created.
They're not interested in building a road that can take traffic off a major route through a cramped village, or a forward looking road that can make a strategic difference to the network in the area. As far as they're concerned the only reason for the new road to exist is to make it easier to get at the new housing developments. Somebody on the first page was asking why it wasn't being called a bypass? This is why. It's also why it's full of roundabouts.

The forward move, as suggested, is to start from the A134 and have it go round both Setchey and West Winch. But there's no chance of that happening.
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by jackal »

HS2 related funding for this was announced recently. I feel it's the kind of scheme that might go ahead as it's fairly far along in development and housing linked, and both main parties are full ahead on housing provision.

As mentioned above, I think it's quite decent. Given the A17 Pullover Junction was also announced, King's Lynn could conceivably get a fully grade separated bypass, with the novelty of two of the GSJs being single carriageway.
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Re: West Winch Housing Access Road (AKA the A10)

Post by Kinitawowi »

Full planning application is up. They're really proud of that left turn lane.

Dualling from the first "housing access roundabout" seems silly if they're not going to flare the new A47/A10 junction...
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