Brussels Ring Road Improvements: Werken aan de Ring

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Peter Freeman
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Re: Brussels Ring Road Improvements: Werken aan de Ring

Post by Peter Freeman »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 12:56 But this is the point, the A201 is not a lengthy grade separated road - you have a turbine serving a road that turns into a city street less than 2 miles to the west, so it gains very little for the network other than a huge maintenance cost. It's some of the oldest motorway infrastructure in Belgium, built at a time when cars were king and nothing else mattered - the world has moved on, whether people on SABRE like it or not. Even the USA is rethinking giant free-flow interchanges where they are expensive to maintain and not helpful to traffic - a current example being this:

https://www.memphisflyer.com/whatever-h ... nterchange

You could argue they should've replaced the cloverleaf with a turbine or a stack but they've gone with the critical movements only - I-55. Much like how the SPUI is going with the critical movements - the R0; which loses a lot of diverge/merge problems and has a clearer run through meaning capacity and safety improves whilst not inducing loads of extra car traffic to an airport Jackal has already conceded has excellent non-car provision to.
The world of transport and road design has moved on, for the better, but still we need good roads. That I55 project is quite interesting (and GE shows it now under construction). Yes, it is an example of clearer thinking now, and it correctly concentrates on I55 freeflow. However, the USA's current roundabout love-affair may be leading them astray. The 2015 roundabout design was perhaps just about OK. The 2024 one is single lane and very small. It's not going to cope, even with those local roads. They should stick to their tradition: a signalised cross (and join that 5th arm local road in somewhere else).

Analogous to R201: not really close. Those other roads in Memphis are very local and (I presume) low volume, and you wouldn't dream of putting a turbine or stack there. A cloverleaf was of course typical 1960's misguided thinking.

But you're right that we can dismantle some 1960's mistakes. In Canberra, AU, one of the key interchanges from the earliest constructions is being cut back, and (you'll love this Bryn) it's to enable stage 2 of the city's light rail system. London Circuit's links to two clover-leaf loops that connect to Parkes Way are being removed, and a signalised crossroads (also accommodating a tram turn) is replacing them. I approve.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Ca ... ?entry=ttu

But I do now agree with Jackal on Brussels' R201!

(Edit: G.maps Canberra link added)
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Bryn666
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Re: Brussels Ring Road Improvements: Werken aan de Ring

Post by Bryn666 »

I welcome the difference of views - I just feel you're both prophesising doom on this one when you don't need to. :wink:

It's no Wisley! I like big interchanges where they seem to be more justified than this particular location. Having one of the stupidest junctions in Europe outside of Heathrow hasn't exactly stopped it being a majorly successful (in terms of people shifted, I hate the place in terms of layout and design otherwise) airport, after all :D
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Peter Freeman
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Re: Brussels Ring Road Improvements: Werken aan de Ring

Post by Peter Freeman »

I'm not prophesying doom. I think a SPUI would be adequate there and would perform well. It would definitely not be a 'Wisley'. But the existing full-freeflow turbine is better, and can be retained, including the parallel R22, whilst still, as proposed -

replacing the main bridge
widening the R0 mainline
adding braids
improving bike tracks and green spaces
Last edited by Peter Freeman on Tue Apr 16, 2024 01:16, edited 1 time in total.
booshank
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Re: Brussels Ring Road Improvements: Werken aan de Ring

Post by booshank »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 15:07 I welcome the difference of views - I just feel you're both prophesising doom on this one when you don't need to. :wink:

It's no Wisley! I like big interchanges where they seem to be more justified than this particular location. Having one of the stupidest junctions in Europe outside of Heathrow hasn't exactly stopped it being a majorly successful (in terms of people shifted, I hate the place in terms of layout and design otherwise) airport, after all :D
Heathrow just shows that if you have the location, people will put up with a pretty shabby and often downright bad experience because they have no other choice. Hardly something to aspire to.
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Re: Brussels Ring Road Improvements: Werken aan de Ring

Post by booshank »

jackal wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 13:59 There is a major project on the Brussels ring road R0 called Werken aan de Ring (the translation is what it sounds like).

Most of the big changes are on Ring North. Here is a quick summary of this area, focusing on system interchanges, running clockwise from Groot Bijgaarden (E40) in the west.

Zone 1: From Groot-Bijgaarden to Meise: https://www.werkenaandering.be/en/zone-1

E40 Groot-Bijgaarden - stack turbine replaced with four level stack. Braiding added on north side to better utilise existing C/D lanes.
A12 Strombeek-Bever - stacked roundabout replaced with four level stack
Wow, that stackabout at Strombeek-Bever is a monstrosity!
Peter Freeman
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Re: Brussels Ring Road Improvements: Werken aan de Ring

Post by Peter Freeman »

Having now gone back and looked in more detail at R0 between E19-E40, I see that the new plans do include the key braidings and C/Ds between the three interchanges on that section. The currently-missing weaving resolution between E19 and R201 is added.

My adjusted opinion is that replacing the R201 turbine with a SPUI is acceptable but unwarranted. My complaint now on that section is that they could have retained R22's parallel run. It appears to be a long and capable road, with continuity. Why remove it?

Regarding the scheme as a whole (it has many major components), I think the end-result will be good. It's rather extravagant here-and-there, but if they can afford it, well, OK.

Large pdf file for the E19-E40 proposals -
https://www.werkenaandering.be/sites/de ... art3-3.pdf
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