A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
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- JammyDodge
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A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
Having recently driven through during the day I have noticed that since the crash barriers have been replaced on this stretch that there is now a black and white checkered pattern on the inside of the 2 curves where it crosses the Tees
Have to say I found it quite distracting with this flashing past out the corner of my eye. The 1st time it took me about 20s to figure out what the hell it was, distracting me from the road.
I can understand the reason this might have been done, but at the same time, why?
Have to say I found it quite distracting with this flashing past out the corner of my eye. The 1st time it took me about 20s to figure out what the hell it was, distracting me from the road.
I can understand the reason this might have been done, but at the same time, why?
Designing Tomorrow, Around the Past
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
If you're talking about the black and white stripes here it's not new. At one time it was quite common to paint barriers (and kerbs) like this for better visibility, but this hasn't been the case for many years. In fact you can see that repairs have just used plain unpainted metal, leaving it a bit of a patchwork.
Have they replaced the barriers with new painted ones? If so I wonder why - it's not a current standard, and would be a lot of work to paint them. The Google view from May 2023 shows new unpainted barriers, so they must have been painted afterwards.
Have they replaced the barriers with new painted ones? If so I wonder why - it's not a current standard, and would be a lot of work to paint them. The Google view from May 2023 shows new unpainted barriers, so they must have been painted afterwards.
- JammyDodge
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
I can now see that they have been there before. Probably couldn't notice because it was so fadedSteelCamel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 09:50 If you're talking about the black and white stripes here it's not new. At one time it was quite common to paint barriers (and kerbs) like this for better visibility, but this hasn't been the case for many years. In fact you can see that repairs have just used plain unpainted metal, leaving it a bit of a patchwork.
Have they replaced the barriers with new painted ones? If so I wonder why - it's not a current standard, and would be a lot of work to paint them. The Google view from May 2023 shows new unpainted barriers, so they must have been painted afterwards.
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- Chris Bertram
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
In Norn Iron, kerbs are sometimes painted red white and blue, but possibly not for the same reason.SteelCamel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 09:50 If you're talking about the black and white stripes here it's not new. At one time it was quite common to paint barriers (and kerbs) like this for better visibility, but this hasn't been the case for many years. In fact you can see that repairs have just used plain unpainted metal, leaving it a bit of a patchwork.
Have they replaced the barriers with new painted ones? If so I wonder why - it's not a current standard, and would be a lot of work to paint them. The Google view from May 2023 shows new unpainted barriers, so they must have been painted afterwards.
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- MotorwayGuy
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
The slip roads on the M2 at junction 5 used to have them, but they have recently been replaced. Junction 6 still has some intact but it is hardly visible now. I believe the original slip roads at junction 2 that were similar to those at 5 and 6 also had them.
Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
The A90 has the same black and white painted central barriers at the sharpish bend just south of the River South Esk bridge at Finavon.
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
Except for a very very few places where they're painted Green/White/Orange. (I only saw this in Toome Bridge in the early 1990s... but there's a heck of a story to that day.)Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 15:04 In Norn Iron, kerbs are sometimes painted red white and blue, but possibly not for the same reason.
Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
Good old Barriermatic used to be all the rage back in the day.
lose: (v): to suffer the deprivation of - to lose one's job; to lose one's life.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
There are also black and white kerbs on road race circuits in NI - rather faded here on one of the corners of the former Carrowdore 100 circuit, but still present at corners on the NW200 and Armoy Road Race circuit.nowster wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 15:00Except for a very very few places where they're painted Green/White/Orange. (I only saw this in Toome Bridge in the early 1990s... but there's a heck of a story to that day.)Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 15:04 In Norn Iron, kerbs are sometimes painted red white and blue, but possibly not for the same reason.
Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
There's also some around here albeit a bit faded.AndyB wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2024 18:30There are also black and white kerbs on road race circuits in NI - rather faded here on one of the corners of the former Carrowdore 100 circuit, but still present at corners on the NW200 and Armoy Road Race circuit.nowster wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 15:00Except for a very very few places where they're painted Green/White/Orange. (I only saw this in Toome Bridge in the early 1990s... but there's a heck of a story to that day.)Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 15:04 In Norn Iron, kerbs are sometimes painted red white and blue, but possibly not for the same reason.
lose: (v): to suffer the deprivation of - to lose one's job; to lose one's life.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
Yeah they have, never mind why they're black and white. I'm more baffled at why there's a metal barrier at all. Last time I checked, all barriers were meant to be getting replaced by concrete barriers on Motorways, this is arguably a point where it actually be useful aswell considering there's bends.SteelCamel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 09:50 Have they replaced the barriers with new painted ones? If so I wonder why - it's not a current standard, and would be a lot of work to paint them. The Google view from May 2023 shows new unpainted barriers, so they must have been painted afterwards.
- Conekicker
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
DMRB CD 377 is the specification for vehicle restraint systems. It has this to say about central reserve VRS:jabbaboy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 23:41Yeah they have, never mind why they're black and white. I'm more baffled at why there's a metal barrier at all. Last time I checked, all barriers were meant to be getting replaced by concrete barriers on Motorways, this is arguably a point where it actually be useful aswell considering there's bends.SteelCamel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 09:50 Have they replaced the barriers with new painted ones? If so I wonder why - it's not a current standard, and would be a lot of work to paint them. The Google view from May 2023 shows new unpainted barriers, so they must have been painted afterwards.
E/1.6 On motorways with a two-way AADT greater or equal to 25,000 vehicles/day where a VRS greater than 500m in length is required in accordance with this document, and the distance Psb to Psb is 10 m or less, the safety barrier shall be rigid, have a serviceable life of not less than 50 years, and be designed such that after testing in accordance with BS EN 1317-1 [Ref 8.N] and BS EN 1317-2 [Ref 7.N], it does not require realignment, replacement or repair.
Metal barriers have a life of around 15 years or so and could thus never meet the requirements of the CD's 50 year life and also never meet the realignment, replacement or repair requirements if struck.
I'm not certain but I think the AADT on the A1(M) is under 25,000 vehicles/day, so in compliance with DMRB a rigid (AKA concrete) barrier wouldn't be called for. However, given the life of metal and concrete barriers and with traffic growth in mind, it might be more cost effective to install the concrete on roads with AADT approaching 25k?
The figure of 25k AADT was arrived at as the change point for the barrier life by whole life cost, whenever it was that concrete barrier was first introduced sometime in the 90s or 00s? 3 metal barrier installs and replacements as opposed to 1 concrete barrier install. It would be interesting to crunch the numbers for the costs these days, given the not insubstantial increase in scheme costs this last few years. Perhaps such an exercise would alter the AADT figure. I've noticed a few schemes are now installing precast concrete sections, rather than the usual cast insitu, presumably this is cheaper and thus quicker to install.
Repairing a strike to a central reserve metal barrier is usually an overnight job and is neither cheap nor safe, especially when compared to never (OK hardly ever) having to do the same to a concrete barrier. There have been a few instances of concrete barrier being damaged when they've been struck sufficiently hard enough, but nothing compared to the number of metal barrier repairs that are carried out.
https://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ ... nline=true
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
Just north of Darlington, the central wire barrier was replaced by concrete from the north end of J59 to the River Skerne, about halfway to J60, in about 2018.
Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
Last AADT for the A66(M) was around 15k, at the end of the day its just a long slip road. Looking at the barrier I would suggest its been there a long time. I have never seen any replacement work happening. On the A1(M) near Wetherby about 10 years ago I saw what was potentially a very nasty incident as there was a Range Rover with the front end on the barrier. Two years ago there was a nasty incident on the A1(M) near Durham.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-60470301
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-60470301
Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
Sorry been busy hence the slow reply. Just checked the AADT figures for the schemes (there's 2 with one further North) and the further North scheme has an AADT of 65k so is well above the 25k so not sure why they've been done with metal barriers to be honest as it seems to fail all the criteria you've listed there. The section further North is the part where the horror crash was a few year ago aswell (as mentioned above) and is the continuation of the concrete barrier installed as mentioned by wrinkly.Conekicker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:12 DMRB CD 377 is the specification for vehicle restraint systems. It has this to say about central reserve VRS:
E/1.6 On motorways with a two-way AADT greater or equal to 25,000 vehicles/day where a VRS greater than 500m in length is required in accordance with this document, and the distance Psb to Psb is 10 m or less, the safety barrier shall be rigid, have a serviceable life of not less than 50 years, and be designed such that after testing in accordance with BS EN 1317-1 [Ref 8.N] and BS EN 1317-2 [Ref 7.N], it does not require realignment, replacement or repair.
Metal barriers have a life of around 15 years or so and could thus never meet the requirements of the CD's 50 year life and also never meet the realignment, replacement or repair requirements if struck.
I'm not certain but I think the AADT on the A1(M) is under 25,000 vehicles/day, so in compliance with DMRB a rigid (AKA concrete) barrier wouldn't be called for. However, given the life of metal and concrete barriers and with traffic growth in mind, it might be more cost effective to install the concrete on roads with AADT approaching 25k?
The figure of 25k AADT was arrived at as the change point for the barrier life by whole life cost, whenever it was that concrete barrier was first introduced sometime in the 90s or 00s? 3 metal barrier installs and replacements as opposed to 1 concrete barrier install. It would be interesting to crunch the numbers for the costs these days, given the not insubstantial increase in scheme costs this last few years. Perhaps such an exercise would alter the AADT figure. I've noticed a few schemes are now installing precast concrete sections, rather than the usual cast insitu, presumably this is cheaper and thus quicker to install.
Repairing a strike to a central reserve metal barrier is usually an overnight job and is neither cheap nor safe, especially when compared to never (OK hardly ever) having to do the same to a concrete barrier. There have been a few instances of concrete barrier being damaged when they've been struck sufficiently hard enough, but nothing compared to the number of metal barrier repairs that are carried out.
https://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ ... nline=true
Who knows, my guess is no doubt short term £££ savings though. Agreed though that it would just make sense to do most roads now, including A roads, since the A19 has been getting new metal barriers aswell on sections which are well well above 25k aswell, just seems pointless. Short term gains for long term costs.
- Conekicker
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Re: A1(M) Darlington Crash Barriers
In that case it will be Area 14 doing what they like (again) then. They have some very strange ideas in that neck of the woods.jabbaboy wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 22:35Sorry been busy hence the slow reply. Just checked the AADT figures for the schemes (there's 2 with one further North) and the further North scheme has an AADT of 65k so is well above the 25k so not sure why they've been done with metal barriers to be honest as it seems to fail all the criteria you've listed there. The section further North is the part where the horror crash was a few year ago aswell (as mentioned above) and is the continuation of the concrete barrier installed as mentioned by wrinkly.Conekicker wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:12 DMRB CD 377 is the specification for vehicle restraint systems. It has this to say about central reserve VRS:
E/1.6 On motorways with a two-way AADT greater or equal to 25,000 vehicles/day where a VRS greater than 500m in length is required in accordance with this document, and the distance Psb to Psb is 10 m or less, the safety barrier shall be rigid, have a serviceable life of not less than 50 years, and be designed such that after testing in accordance with BS EN 1317-1 [Ref 8.N] and BS EN 1317-2 [Ref 7.N], it does not require realignment, replacement or repair.
Metal barriers have a life of around 15 years or so and could thus never meet the requirements of the CD's 50 year life and also never meet the realignment, replacement or repair requirements if struck.
I'm not certain but I think the AADT on the A1(M) is under 25,000 vehicles/day, so in compliance with DMRB a rigid (AKA concrete) barrier wouldn't be called for. However, given the life of metal and concrete barriers and with traffic growth in mind, it might be more cost effective to install the concrete on roads with AADT approaching 25k?
The figure of 25k AADT was arrived at as the change point for the barrier life by whole life cost, whenever it was that concrete barrier was first introduced sometime in the 90s or 00s? 3 metal barrier installs and replacements as opposed to 1 concrete barrier install. It would be interesting to crunch the numbers for the costs these days, given the not insubstantial increase in scheme costs this last few years. Perhaps such an exercise would alter the AADT figure. I've noticed a few schemes are now installing precast concrete sections, rather than the usual cast insitu, presumably this is cheaper and thus quicker to install.
Repairing a strike to a central reserve metal barrier is usually an overnight job and is neither cheap nor safe, especially when compared to never (OK hardly ever) having to do the same to a concrete barrier. There have been a few instances of concrete barrier being damaged when they've been struck sufficiently hard enough, but nothing compared to the number of metal barrier repairs that are carried out.
https://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ ... nline=true
Who knows, my guess is no doubt short term £££ savings though. Agreed though that it would just make sense to do most roads now, including A roads, since the A19 has been getting new metal barriers aswell on sections which are well well above 25k aswell, just seems pointless. Short term gains for long term costs.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.