Is it a North East thing? Hardly any like that here in the West Midlands (without secondaries)! The majority of those sites would benefit from a simple give way, especially considering there are no dedicated pedestrian facilities.traffic-light-man wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 21:24Yes, the lantern on the nearside of the left turn slip is the same phase as the ahead - probably one of the reasons there isn't a dedicated secondary. It's a fairly normal layout in my mind, particularly locally and I've never really given it much thought other than it definitely being old fashioned by today's standards.ReissOmari wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 10:22 Is there really any need for the signalised left turn? Surely a give way would make more sense as there's no conflicting traffic when they are on red, but when on green there's conflicting traffic coming from the right!? Also I assume it's just connected to the ahead phase meaning when the filter arrow is on from Dunriding Lane, they'll still be red. Also interesting to see there isn't a secondary signal for the left turn either, quite a botch that.
I can't imagine you'll get any new examples of this arrangement, though this sort of layout is also a bit of a relic in general, particularly in an urban environment. I think it definitely pre-dates the Mellor era.
There's some other examples here, here, here, here, here and here. Granted, most of those are not T-junctions, but the left turn layouts are the same - I'm sure more will spring to mind.
There's an odd additional ahead aspect mounted to the RAG here as well - seems a bit odd, though not necessarily 'wrong'.
Unique Traffic Signals
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
ReissOmari..
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Possibly a north west thing, like I say, it's not something I've considered as unusual and so haven't been on the look out for it elsewhere in the country. Similar arrangements can be found across Lancashire, Cheshire and Greater Manchester, too, so not unique to Merseyside.ReissOmari wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 13:12 Is it a North East thing? Hardly any like that here in the West Midlands (without secondaries)! The majority of those sites would benefit from a simple give way, especially considering there are no dedicated pedestrian facilities.
Simon
Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Here's another example of an ahead signal that would never have cause to go red as no phase can conflict.
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2456589 ... ?entry=ttu
I wonder if the red and yellow bulbs are even installed and wired in to the controller.
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2456589 ... ?entry=ttu
I wonder if the red and yellow bulbs are even installed and wired in to the controller.
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
It appears you used to be able to turn right out of Butt Lane but this was changed when the Park and Ride was built and the RAG heads were replaced like for like. Nearby on the newer junction which allows the movement, they have done the weird combined left/right setup, which seems unnecessary unless there is a no entry ahead.tom66 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 22:58 Here's another example of an ahead signal that would never have cause to go red as no phase can conflict.
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2456589 ... ?entry=ttu
I wonder if the red and yellow bulbs are even installed and wired in to the controller.
- traffic-light-man
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
I suspect the red and amber aspects do exist, if anything just for the 'all red' function. There's a possibility this is used for a quiescent all red revert, but it'll be a manual panel function either way.
Simon
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Apologies, North West was what I meant!traffic-light-man wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 15:37Possibly a north west thing, like I say, it's not something I've considered as unusual and so haven't been on the look out for it elsewhere in the country. Similar arrangements can be found across Lancashire, Cheshire and Greater Manchester, too, so not unique to Merseyside.ReissOmari wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 13:12 Is it a North East thing? Hardly any like that here in the West Midlands (without secondaries)! The majority of those sites would benefit from a simple give way, especially considering there are no dedicated pedestrian facilities.
There is a similar arrangement in Birmingham, albeit with a secondary signal, that appears to be pretty useless - these left turn signals stay on green throughout all cycles, but default to red for a couple seconds then back to green when the ahead signal changes to green. Once again, no pedestrian crossing and a give way past the signals. These could be removed, if there was a right turn filter from Summer Row it would be understandable, however, with the give way, it seems a bit contradicting.
To be honest, this whole area of Birmingham is a mess at the moment.
ReissOmari..
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
It seems like that area has been in perpetual redevelopment for the past 15 years. I particularly like this mess; all traffic must turn right by going in a bus lane, but oh if you decide to ignore that the route ahead has motor vehicles prohibited except for blah blah, which obviously includes using it as a makeshift car park despite red lines. Who signs off this ****?ReissOmari wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:36Apologies, North West was what I meant!traffic-light-man wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 15:37Possibly a north west thing, like I say, it's not something I've considered as unusual and so haven't been on the look out for it elsewhere in the country. Similar arrangements can be found across Lancashire, Cheshire and Greater Manchester, too, so not unique to Merseyside.ReissOmari wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 13:12 Is it a North East thing? Hardly any like that here in the West Midlands (without secondaries)! The majority of those sites would benefit from a simple give way, especially considering there are no dedicated pedestrian facilities.
There is a similar arrangement in Birmingham, albeit with a secondary signal, that appears to be pretty useless - these left turn signals stay on green throughout all cycles, but default to red for a couple seconds then back to green when the ahead signal changes to green. Once again, no pedestrian crossing and a give way past the signals. These could be removed, if there was a right turn filter from Summer Row it would be understandable, however, with the give way, it seems a bit contradicting.
To be honest, this whole area of Birmingham is a mess at the moment.
EDIT: Just realised that this set installed last year at Thanet Parkway last year has a set of RAGs for the left turn that never turn red. I'm not sure why they decided to install these here instead of just a normal slip road merge, but I'm guessing it's due to the incline and proximity to the roundabout.
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Those look similar to the ones on Kensington High Street in London, if they're not the same type. The Kensington ones have a look reminiscent of Mellors fitted to 'tin lantern' poles, especially with the 4Gs that are fitted to some of them now.
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
I've just been reminded of this unique crossing in Eastbourne. Not so much a unique signal, but unique and unconventional layout. Is there anywhere else with such a thing?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.76614 ... ?entry=ttu
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.76614 ... ?entry=ttu
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Not quite - TfGM has had a few of these, both with Peek and Siemens lanterns. There's still some in Wigan, here. I think the Boston example is also a separate 2 section lantern mounted very close to the five aspect lantern, whereas the TfGM ones are all part of the same lanterns.
I think I've mentioned this before on SABRE, but I can't work out how on earth that junction in Boston operates. Presumably, any buses waiting to turn right simply sit at the stop line and wait for the right arrow to illuminate, but I'd love to know how it's actually demanded and if that demand is always sufficiently early enough that the bus never actually blocks the ahead+left movement.
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Far from it. The majority of the tram signals on the street running section of the Midland Metro have been Mellors.
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
What is the point of these lights in Birmingham? Metering traffic off the Quinton Expressway?
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4623913 ... ?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4623913 ... ?entry=ttu
Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Guess so. You should try getting out of that slip road without help if it’s busy.wallmeerkat wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 15:24 What is the point of these lights in Birmingham? Metering traffic off the Quinton Expressway?
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4623913 ... ?entry=ttu
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- traffic-light-man
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
A lot of the Supertram network still has Mellors fitted. Metrolink was the same, but following the TfGM LED retrofit now it's only some the off street sections that have them, albeit LED variants. Blackpool Tramway was also all Mellors (and even RAGs in some cases), but they were culled in favour of LEDs when the route was upgraded around 10 years ago. Not sure about Croydon these days, but that did have some Mellors, too.
I did think the Midland Metro and Nottingham networks were mostly Microsense MSH housings, so that's interesting to note.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 21:10Far from it. The majority of the tram signals on the street running section of the Midland Metro have been Mellors.
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
Is there a sensor somewhere that detects traffic stopped at the onslip?Big L wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 18:14Guess so. You should try getting out of that slip road without help if it’s busy.wallmeerkat wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 15:24 What is the point of these lights in Birmingham? Metering traffic off the Quinton Expressway?
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4623913 ... ?entry=ttu
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Re: Unique Traffic Signals
It doesn't look like there's a queue loop or anything like that on the slip.wallmeerkat wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 10:34Is there a sensor somewhere that detects traffic stopped at the onslip?Big L wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 18:14Guess so. You should try getting out of that slip road without help if it’s busy.wallmeerkat wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 15:24 What is the point of these lights in Birmingham? Metering traffic off the Quinton Expressway?
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4623913 ... ?entry=ttu
Is there a possibility it's actually intended to create gaps for buses leaving the bus lane? These might have something to do with it. I thought they were system D X loops for the crossing at first, but they are too far out and missing the Y and Z loops.
In fact, it's a bit odd that the signals by the slip road have a full set of system D loops, but the crossing looks to have no standard detection at all.
Are they linked together? I.e. the slip road set change, and then a fixed time later the crossing changes?
Simon