Impossible (?) Road Improvements

[Vierwielen]

... snip ...

We had plans for a massive April 1st prank involving the proposal of a high level bridge to connect the megalopolises of Old Town to Heptonstall as part of a wider A646 bypass... the alternative suggestion was that we were going to implement a major flood remediation measure by turning Hebden Bridge into a reservoir.

About 30 years ago, one of the local rags published an April Fool suggesting that the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) at Farnborough becomes London's third airport. Today it is one of London's major de facto airports - private jets are zooming in and out all day. A few months ago, when the King made a visit to France (I think), the Court Circular showed him as leaving from Farnborough (rather than Northolt or Brize Norton).

[ForestChav]

Shrewsbury Bypass.
Was with my dad yesterday and got caught in traffic (didn't stop but can be 1 mile traffic jams and can stretch into the town centre in the holidays)
My dad said that they never built it for the future and only accounted for traffic then.
I suggested this but he said too many properties and it's too late now and they just gotta cope.

There is probably the land take there to build a parclo or dumbell within the existing structure, if you're thinking about keeping the A5 free flowing.

Round here there are plenty of junctions on the new A46 and also the A1 where a similar setup has happened.

If there isn't a lot of flows between the A5 and A49 there, keeping both going through the junction but with slips between them, like A1/A52, would probably do. But is it worth the disruption?

[iantherev]

'Modal Shift' appears in every one of Wales's quoted paragraphs!

If they want to encourage modal shift they need to stop finding housing estates to divert Interurban bus services around.

[Gareth Thomas]

The A20 through Dover. It's the main road to the ferries at the Eastern Docks, but it cuts the town centre off from the seafront. The problem is there is nowhere else to put a road like this due to the terrain and the town centre. So all they can really do is "improve" the existing road.

It's a shame the Western Docks aren't the main ferry terminal, because they are much easier to get to from the A20 than the Eastern ones.

[Truvelo]

Shrewsbury Bypass.
Was with my dad yesterday and got caught in traffic (didn't stop but can be 1 mile traffic jams and can stretch into the town centre in the holidays)
My dad said that they never built it for the future and only accounted for traffic then.
I suggested this but he said too many properties and it's too late now and they just gotta cope.

There is probably the land take there to build a parclo or dumbell within the existing structure, if you're thinking about keeping the A5 free flowing.

Round here there are plenty of junctions on the new A46 and also the A1 where a similar setup has happened.

If there isn't a lot of flows between the A5 and A49 there, keeping both going through the junction but with slips between them, like A1/A52, would probably do. But is it worth the disruption?

It should have been built with GSJ's from day one but even when it was first planned in the 1970s the junctions were all to be at-grade apart from the A458 which is only a GSJ because the geography suited it rather than traffic flows. The worst part of the bypass is actually the A49 on the eastern side where during the afternoon the section between the B5062 and A53 can be crawling in both directions. A simple meccano style S2 flyover for both these roundabouts would work wonders.

[Chris56000]

. . .It was defined in "Policy For Roads" and subsequent Command and White papers as "A5/A49 Shrewsbury Southern and Eastern Bypass, Standard D2/S" – it should have been planned as "D2" for both the A5 and A49 sections with GSJs, including the A5/A49 junction with a GSJ roundabout interchange for both the A49 Eastern Bypass and a GSJ Roundabout for Preston Brook, with D2 flyovers/underpasses catering for the through east/west A5 traffic!

. . .A short length of D2 on the A49 bypassing Bayston Hill south of the A5 and another D2 for the A49 Eastern Bypass section, returning to single–carriageway at Battlefield Roundabout would have solved all the problems round here!

Chris Williams

[Bryn666]

The A20 through Dover. It's the main road to the ferries at the Eastern Docks, but it cuts the town centre off from the seafront. The problem is there is nowhere else to put a road like this due to the terrain and the town centre. So all they can really do is "improve" the existing road.

It's a shame the Western Docks aren't the main ferry terminal, because they are much easier to get to from the A20 than the Eastern ones.

Given the appalling state of some of the infrastructure around Eastern Docks I wouldn't be surprised if in the longer term future they consider shifting everything to Western Docks, although the recent renewal works have been very focussed on turning it all into a marina and flats so who knows.

Always like to compare with Calais which has gone all out on the new stuff since the B word.

[Ritchie333]

I use this section of the A20 to get to places along the east Kent coast like Deal and Sandwich. Although it's obviously not a fast road, it's not particularly long and the amount of cross traffic joining is minimal. I can't recall being held up in a queue here. Although, that's probably because when I hear the ports are congested I give the area a wide berth and find a different route.

[prodraught]

Being as this part of the forum has wandered off into fantasy, Here I my top five Road fixes in the UK (mainly England as that's where I travel) - Please bear in mind that Money is no object apparently!

a) M1 - staples corner to Hyde park Motorway (yes, it was planned - I wish it had been built)
b) M6 - Birmingham Northern Bypass (just pay the Tw*ts who built it and take it back into the road network for free)
c) M5 - Bristol - Avonmouth bridge, another option for when it gets blocked
d) M1 - Luton - It does not matter how many lanes, it just keeps stopping - Close three junctions and build another road
e) Manchester - Sheffield Motorway: Build any of the three perfectly sensible schemes proposed!

[Glenn A]

How about another western by pass of Newcastle, leaving the A69 at Throckley, crossing the A696 with a GSJ near the airport and joining the A1 at Seaton Burn with a totally rebuilt junction with the A19. This would remove airport traffic from the B6323 and relieve pressure on the A1, and also provide faster access from the airport to the A69 and A1. While doable on the map, the main objections would be from well off NIMBYs in Darras Hall who might not take kindly to a new D2 being built within view of their five and six bedroomed villas.

[KeithW]

The A20 through Dover. It's the main road to the ferries at the Eastern Docks, but it cuts the town centre off from the seafront. The problem is there is nowhere else to put a road like this due to the terrain and the town centre. So all they can really do is "improve" the existing road.

It's a shame the Western Docks aren't the main ferry terminal, because they are much easier to get to from the A20 than the Eastern ones.

Which is why its used for the cruise ship terminal, cargo terminal and the Marina. Its a pity they closed Ramsgate after building the harbour tunnel. Having said that before the A20 was built the route from Folkestone dumped you here.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1261932 ... &entry=ttu

The traffic routed via the ports dropped considerably once the channel tunnel opened and the air link from Heathrow to Paris went from a flight every 15 minutes to one every 4 hours.

[KeithW]

Being as this part of the forum has wandered off into fantasy, Here I my top five Road fixes in the UK (mainly England as that's where I travel) - Please bear in mind that Money is no object apparently!

a) M1 - staples corner to Hyde park Motorway (yes, it was planned - I wish it had been built)
b) M6 - Birmingham Northern Bypass (just pay the Tw*ts who built it and take it back into the road network for free)
c) M5 - Bristol - Avonmouth bridge, another option for when it gets blocked
d) M1 - Luton - It does not matter how many lanes, it just keeps stopping - Close three junctions and build another road
e) Manchester - Sheffield Motorway: Build any of the three perfectly sensible schemes proposed!

There is a route from Bristol to Avonmouth - The Portway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4700862 ... &entry=ttu

[Owain]

Being as this part of the forum has wandered off into fantasy, Here I my top five Road fixes in the UK (mainly England as that's where I travel) - Please bear in mind that Money is no object apparently!

a) M1 - staples corner to Hyde park Motorway (yes, it was planned - I wish it had been built)
b) M6 - Birmingham Northern Bypass (just pay the Tw*ts who built it and take it back into the road network for free)
c) M5 - Bristol - Avonmouth bridge, another option for when it gets blocked
d) M1 - Luton - It does not matter how many lanes, it just keeps stopping - Close three junctions and build another road
e) Manchester - Sheffield Motorway: Build any of the three perfectly sensible schemes proposed!

There is a route from Bristol to Avonmouth - The Portway.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4700862 ... &entry=ttu

I think prodraught is suggesting that it would be desirable for there to be another north-south crossing of the Avon, to relieve the existing bridge on the M5.

The A4 Portway doesn't cross the Avon; in order for it to provide relief for the M5 bridge, you'd have to use the Plimsoll Swingbridge and A370 as well. Considering that the Plimsoll Swingbridge is inside the new Bristol Clean Air Zone, it hardly seems an appropriate choice for the diversion of motorway traffic!

[SouthWest Philip]

Considering that the Plimsoll Swingbridge is inside the new Bristol Clean Air Zone, it hardly seems an appropriate choice for the diversion of motorway traffic!

Or, to put it another way, it was hardly appropriate to include the obvious diversion route in the zone. It should have formed the boundary, but been excluded from the charge.

[KeithW]

I think prodraught is suggesting that it would be desirable for there to be another north-south crossing of the Avon, to relieve the existing bridge on the M5.

The A4 Portway doesn't cross the Avon; in order for it to provide relief for the M5 bridge, you'd have to use the Plimsoll Swingbridge and A370 as well. Considering that the Plimsoll Swingbridge is inside the new Bristol Clean Air Zone, it hardly seems an appropriate choice for the diversion of motorway traffic!

I dont recall suggesting it did, finding space to squeeze a new bridge between J18 and J19 would be challenging without considerable demolition. I suppose you could upgrade the A38 and build a Bristol southern bypass but that is one for Fantasy Motorways I think.

[WHBM]

The traffic routed via the ports dropped considerably once the channel tunnel opened and the air link from Heathrow to Paris went from a flight every 15 minutes to one every 4 hours.

Unfortunately hyperbole at both ends of the scale. There are, today, 14 flights scheduled from London Heathrow to Paris. The number on a comparable day in, say, 1989, shortly before the tunnel opened, was ... 16. Just the same two airlines now as previously.

[SteveM]

Being as this part of the forum has wandered off into fantasy, Here I my top five Road fixes in the UK (mainly England as that's where I travel) - Please bear in mind that Money is no object apparently!

a) M1 - staples corner to Hyde park Motorway (yes, it was planned - I wish it had been built)
b) M6 - Birmingham Northern Bypass (just pay the Tw*ts who built it and take it back into the road network for free)
c) M5 - Bristol - Avonmouth bridge, another option for when it gets blocked
d) M1 - Luton - It does not matter how many lanes, it just keeps stopping - Close three junctions and build another road
e) Manchester - Sheffield Motorway: Build any of the three perfectly sensible schemes proposed!

Any improvement which fills an obvious 'gap' in an otherwise complete trunk road D2 / D3 / M network. So all the A303 Expressway schemes. A27 around Arundel. The same approach taken as with the Air Balloon on the A417 which is filling the only bit of single carriageway left on that route from M4 to M5.

The reason I put these on an 'Impossible (?) Road Improvements' thread is that I think after July 4th there may be a bit of a rethink about what constitutes 'value for money' in a transport scheme (note I do not say 'road scheme' because IMHO I think we will start to see more of a move to active travel and public transport).

[noordinarymorning]

I think prodraught is suggesting that it would be desirable for there to be another north-south crossing of the Avon, to relieve the existing bridge on the M5.

The A4 Portway doesn't cross the Avon; in order for it to provide relief for the M5 bridge, you'd have to use the Plimsoll Swingbridge and A370 as well. Considering that the Plimsoll Swingbridge is inside the new Bristol Clean Air Zone, it hardly seems an appropriate choice for the diversion of motorway traffic!

I dont recall suggesting it did, finding space to squeeze a new bridge between J18 and J19 would be challenging without considerable demolition. I suppose you could upgrade the A38 and build a Bristol southern bypass but that is one for Fantasy Motorways I think.

Funnily enough, a low-level lifting crossing from the Portway to an extended J19 was proposed in the Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study of 2006 (section 6-51) and was even reported by the BBC.

Possibly a bit pie-in-the-sky, but to be fair, some of the other proposed projects did come to pass, e.g. the A370-A38 link.

[KeithW]

The traffic routed via the ports dropped considerably once the channel tunnel opened and the air link from Heathrow to Paris went from a flight every 15 minutes to one every 4 hours.

Unfortunately hyperbole at both ends of the scale. There are, today, 14 flights scheduled from London Heathrow to Paris. The number on a comparable day in, say, 1989, shortly before the tunnel opened, was ... 16. Just the same two airlines now as previously.

Well I can tell you is there were 4 an hour operated by Air France and about the same number by BEA/British Airways.

All I can do is tell you what I saw after HS1 was opened. At the time I was travelling to Electricite De France in Paris pretty often, at the time Disneyland Paris was still being built so I have no doubt traffic patterns changed accordingly. The last return trip I was scheduled to make was the the 7 July 2005 but the bombings in London changed that. It was several days before I could get back so EdF got a few more training days Even then I had to take a taxi between Waterloo and Kings Cross as they were still rejigging St Pancras.

[6637]

The A20 through Dover. It's the main road to the ferries at the Eastern Docks, but it cuts the town centre off from the seafront. The problem is there is nowhere else to put a road like this due to the terrain and the town centre.

Just use a road tunnel, branching off from the existing A20 just before it reaches Dover and ending near Cap Gris-Nez in France, thereby massively reducing demand for the Eastern Docks in Dover.