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Mikehannah wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 13:58
This is a long shot.
Heading to Aberdeen this week, thinking of going the Carrbridge, Granton on Spey Keith route.
Does anyone know the condition of the road and likely traffic. I have lost two tyres to potholes this year already and don’t want to make it a third.
Literally went along here 2 hours ago.
It's not that bad, didn't encounter any significant holes, and the surface in general is acceptable to excellent. Not really any traffic, but I did get held up behind an inconsiderate caravan for the whole length, they didn't even pull over once.
Mikehannah wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 13:58
This is a long shot.
Heading to Aberdeen this week, thinking of going the Carrbridge, Granton on Spey Keith route.
Does anyone know the condition of the road and likely traffic. I have lost two tyres to potholes this year already and don’t want to make it a third.
Personally, I'd use the A941 from Craigellachie to Dufftown then the A920 from there to Huntley. Haven't used it in a couple years but the roads then were always in good condition and it's much quicker than the awful A95 between Craigellachie and Keith which I really don't understand why is trunk/primary.
Mikehannah wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 01:18
Hi
Interesting idea but it kind of defeats the point which for me is avoiding the bottlenecks at Nairn and Elgin.
You still do, it's just a slightly different route in the middle section.
The map above shows it, but you just cut the corner off and miss Keith which can be a pain aswell. The rest of the route via Carrbridge is all the same and you'd still miss Nairn and Elgin.
The key part of that is: We’re also progressing the work to determine the most suitable procurement option for delivering the scheme to enable us to construct it as soon as we can in line with available budgets. This work has already commenced and we will shortly be procuring financial advisors to assist with this vital work. Once completed, we will then be in a position to set a timetable for delivering the scheme.
And also At the same time we are also continuing to press ahead with the necessary statutory processes for the adjacent A9/A96 Inshes to Smithton scheme and expect to publish the Made Orders in a matter of weeks.
It seems likely that this will go ahead as an MIM (PFI v3) project, like the central parts of the A9, and include the Inshes to Smithton link.
This project just needs scrapped imo. By all means build a bypass around Keith, Nairn and Elgin which are dual carriageway but when the country is skint wasting money on a road which doesn't need to be dual carriageway for it's full length is just barmy. Sometimes honesty can go a long way than dragging something out that won't happen anyway.
I presume you mean the full A96 dualling, and not the Inverness to Nairn project?
Inverness to Nairn is, I think, one of the busier sections (as is the case with Inverurie to Aberdeen - already dualled of course), and Nairn has been crying out for a bypass for years. I'd certainly agree that prioritising bypasses if resources are scarce would make sense (and when building them, might as well build them as dual carriageway), and if there are sections between the towns that can otherwise be improved, then great.
orudge wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:21
I presume you mean the full A96 dualling, and not the Inverness to Nairn project?
Inverness to Nairn is, I think, one of the busier sections (as is the case with Inverurie to Aberdeen - already dualled of course), and Nairn has been crying out for a bypass for years. I'd certainly agree that prioritising bypasses if resources are scarce would make sense (and when building them, might as well build them as dual carriageway), and if there are sections between the towns that can otherwise be improved, then great.
Yeah I did there, just seems silly to keep commiting to the whole thing, it's really not needed and there's much worse roads in Scotland, even the Highlands (Longman / Black Isle Junctions / Strathcarron) never mind the lowlands which should be greater priority imo.
The last few times I went through Nairn it was a right royal pain in the butt, practically nose to tail for miles and Elgin wasn't much better. Bypasses for Nairn, Forres, Elgin and Keith even if WS2 or WS2+1 would be a considerable improvement.
KeithW wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:49
The last few times I went through Nairn it was a right royal pain in the butt, practically nose to tail for miles and Elgin wasn't much better. Bypasses for Nairn, Forres, Elgin and Keith even if WS2 or WS2+1 would be a considerable improvement.
This is the kind of attitude that is probably required, to be honest, on both the A9 and A96 schemes rather than religious commitment to something Alex Salmond said a decade and a half ago. It would be politically damaging to have given up on those commitments, but if they'd done it earlier there could now actually be shovels in the ground on deliverable schemes rather than the mess we have now.
jabbaboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:39
The Elgin bypass is in deperate need though mind.
I have been repeatedly told by someone who used to work for Moray Highways (nearly 10 years ago now) that this is not the case. Traffic surveys led them to believe that only around 20-25% of the traffic on the A96 In Elgin was long distance traffic passing through Elgin without stopping (and their count points allowed for traffic diverting around the 'ring roads'. Compared to Forres, Fochabers and Keith where the figures ranged from 40-70% if I remember correctly. Although Nairn is in Highland, and Huntly in Aberdeenshire, the belief was that their figures were high too.
Including stopping traffic all the towns had higher figures, but the uplift in Elgin was the lowest. The conclusion was that a lot of traffic on the A96 used Elgin as the mid way point, so Aberdeen served places to the east and Inverness to the west, with commuter / shopper type traffic from the town also heading one way or the other but not passing through. RAF Lossiemouth and tourist traffic also influence these counts I would imagine. Google suggests travel times of just under an hour from Elgin to Inverness and an hour and a half down to Aberdeen, which with the dual carriageway is probably considered a better road by many.
This data led to the abandonment of the 'Moray bypass' proposal, in favour of more on line improvements and a closer bypass for Elgin, probably passing to the south. Even that is now very much on the back burner though! Dualling for Inverness - Nairn and a bypass for Keith were to be prioritised, and they were looking at dualling as far as Huntly I think. Once these were done, they would reassess requirements in between. As I said, though, it is nearly a decade since I had good insight into what was happening, and things have almost certainly changed.
Rob. My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
jabbaboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:39
The Elgin bypass is in deperate need though mind.
I have been repeatedly told by someone who used to work for Moray Highways (nearly 10 years ago now) that this is not the case. Traffic surveys led them to believe that only around 20-25% of the traffic on the A96 In Elgin was long distance traffic passing through Elgin without stopping (and their count points allowed for traffic diverting around the 'ring roads'. Compared to Forres, Fochabers and Keith where the figures ranged from 40-70% if I remember correctly. Although Nairn is in Highland, and Huntly in Aberdeenshire, the belief was that their figures were high too.
Including stopping traffic all the towns had higher figures, but the uplift in Elgin was the lowest. The conclusion was that a lot of traffic on the A96 used Elgin as the mid way point, so Aberdeen served places to the east and Inverness to the west, with commuter / shopper type traffic from the town also heading one way or the other but not passing through. RAF Lossiemouth and tourist traffic also influence these counts I would imagine. Google suggests travel times of just under an hour from Elgin to Inverness and an hour and a half down to Aberdeen, which with the dual carriageway is probably considered a better road by many.
This data led to the abandonment of the 'Moray bypass' proposal, in favour of more on line improvements and a closer bypass for Elgin, probably passing to the south. Even that is now very much on the back burner though! Dualling for Inverness - Nairn and a bypass for Keith were to be prioritised, and they were looking at dualling as far as Huntly I think. Once these were done, they would reassess requirements in between. As I said, though, it is nearly a decade since I had good insight into what was happening, and things have almost certainly changed.
From casual observation, not statistics, I'd have thought that 20-25% through traffic was a bit low, but I suppose it depends on how they define "long distance". However I'm sure a lot of traffic does terminate or turn off in Elgin. Very few passengers continue across Elgin on Stagecoach's Service 10 bus; more do on the train, but it's the third busiest intermediate station (by passenger entry/exit) on the line after Dyce and Inverurie.
At Fochabers, traffic splits with about 55% on the A98 and 45% on the eastern part of the A96, so I'd see the A96 west of Fochabers, or sections of it, as a higher priority for upgrading. Certainly Nairn would benefit greatly from a bypass.
A Nairn bypass is needed. But things are much less clear east of there. As noted above, Forres and Fochabers already have S2 bypasses appropriate to their modest (10-12k) volumes. And beyond Fochabers/the A98 volumes are very low.
I'm also sceptical whether the Nairn bypass needs to be dualled. West of Nairn does, but the actual bypass bit doesn't as lots of the traffic is going to/from Nairn. It seems it's being dualled for political reasons, to look like they're fulfilling the totally unrealistic A96 commitment, rather than due to any need. This is pretty obvious from the fact that, westbound towards the new bypass, you'll be on a moderate AADT S2, then get a grade separated D2 just as much of the traffic leaves for Nairn!
Conversely they're keeping the shopping park roundabout in at the actually busy western extent of the dualling though it could easily be removed given the nearby GSJ and link road to the Inshes scheme.
Even within the scope of the project the prioritisation is weird, never mind if you compare to the woeful A82, say.
jackal wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 11:20
Even within the scope of the project the prioritisation is weird, never mind if you compare to the woeful A82, say.
I remain convinced that this is because if your success metric is percentage completion, you'll naturally tick off the easiest bits first. It's not a direct correlation, but this is probably the bits where intervention is least necessary (otherwise it would have been done already in the last 50 years.) It's the same with the A9. They need to re-scope both projects to targeted safety and journey time improvements with at least passive provision for full-route dualling at some point in the future.
jabbaboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:39
The Elgin bypass is in deperate need though mind.
I have been repeatedly told by someone who used to work for Moray Highways (nearly 10 years ago now) that this is not the case. Traffic surveys led them to believe that only around 20-25% of the traffic on the A96 In Elgin was long distance traffic passing through Elgin without stopping (and their count points allowed for traffic diverting around the 'ring roads'. Compared to Forres, Fochabers and Keith where the figures ranged from 40-70% if I remember correctly. Although Nairn is in Highland, and Huntly in Aberdeenshire, the belief was that their figures were high too.
Including stopping traffic all the towns had higher figures, but the uplift in Elgin was the lowest. The conclusion was that a lot of traffic on the A96 used Elgin as the mid way point, so Aberdeen served places to the east and Inverness to the west, with commuter / shopper type traffic from the town also heading one way or the other but not passing through. RAF Lossiemouth and tourist traffic also influence these counts I would imagine. Google suggests travel times of just under an hour from Elgin to Inverness and an hour and a half down to Aberdeen, which with the dual carriageway is probably considered a better road by many.
This data led to the abandonment of the 'Moray bypass' proposal, in favour of more on line improvements and a closer bypass for Elgin, probably passing to the south. Even that is now very much on the back burner though! Dualling for Inverness - Nairn and a bypass for Keith were to be prioritised, and they were looking at dualling as far as Huntly I think. Once these were done, they would reassess requirements in between. As I said, though, it is nearly a decade since I had good insight into what was happening, and things have almost certainly changed.
Honestly now that you say that I wouldn't be too surprised, if I had to be honest with you, whenever I've used the A96 I've never really crossed Elgin
Actually just travelled along it today at peak time from Fochabers to Inverurie and I can't see any reason, at all, why it needs dualled tbh. An extra crawler lane here and then would be nice but that's all that's needed really.
Mind that said that 20% might be enough to get arid of the traffic issues that exist in the centre though to be fair. It's a pain right now especially around St Giles Car Park.
In that case you are blessed. I came north a week ago last Wednesday and it took me close to 4 hrs to travel from Aberdeen ARI to Inverness Tescos.
You may be of the opinion that it doesn’t need dualled but other regular users including myself have a different opinion.
As for skint maybe the SG would be in a better position if they did not waste sums of money on ferries etc.
They could have given each employee a million at Ferguson marine and still had change for Turkey to build them.
Mikehannah wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 14:15
In that case you are blessed. I came north a week ago last Wednesday and it took me close to 4 hrs to travel from Aberdeen ARI to Inverness Tescos.
You may be of the opinion that it doesn’t need dualled but other regular users including myself have a different opinion.
Presumably there must have been some kind of specific hold up. I've just plugged it into Google and it's stating 2 hours 14 minutes now and typically 2 hours 10 to 2 hours 40 minutes.
Mikehannah wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 14:15
In that case you are blessed. I came north a week ago last Wednesday and it took me close to 4 hrs to travel from Aberdeen ARI to Inverness Tescos.
You may be of the opinion that it doesn’t need dualled but other regular users including myself have a different opinion.
As for skint maybe the SG would be in a better position if they did not waste sums of money on ferries etc.
They could have given each employee a million at Ferguson marine and still had change for Turkey to build them.
Sounds like you had an ugly run there, I must admit it needs more overtaking opportunities, but I really can't see why it needs to be dual carriageway. I'd agree if the rest of the network was perfect but after a journey from hell travelling home to Newcastle the day after there's other places really need to be higher priority and none of it was caused by accidents or breakdowns - it was just pure congestion.
Dundee Kingsway, in particular, has to be one of the worst roads in the whole of Britain and whoever does traffic lights needs training in sequences, I've never seen lights where you have to stop twice on a roundabout on a major road, absolute farce. That's before getting to Edinburgh and Sheriffhall and the West Coast wasn't an option either because of Broxton and Cumbernauld being a mess aswell, the fact the last is pretty much brand new is embarrassing aswell.
In the Highlands, the Black Isle junctions, Stromeferry and Longman Roundabout should be all higher priorities imo as they're all dangerous or have big delays.
Mikehannah wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 14:15
In that case you are blessed. I came north a week ago last Wednesday and it took me close to 4 hrs to travel from Aberdeen ARI to Inverness Tescos.
You may be of the opinion that it doesn’t need dualled but other regular users including myself have a different opinion.
As for skint maybe the SG would be in a better position if they did not waste sums of money on ferries etc.
They could have given each employee a million at Ferguson marine and still had change for Turkey to build them.
The ferries fiasco can't have helped, but some perspective might be useful: for the full, inflated price of both new ferries put together you could dual approximately 5 miles of the A96.
