Removing rural street lighting permanently

[Haydn1971]

Looking to get a general view on the concept of removing street lighting from minor rural roads. I'm thinking of minor back roads in rural areas, that may have a higher speed limit, perhaps installed in the era when fog/smog was commonplace.

Obviously there could be issues in some locations with speed limit TRO's, some sections of road may require street lighting to remain through villages ect, but on the whole, has this been done on a large scale before and where ?

Why ? I hear you ask, I'm looking at it in terms of annual savings to highways electricity bills, potential savings in terms of not replacing equipment that may be at the end of life and so on. Initial thought would be to turn equipment off, then remove after a trial period.

Thoughts ?

[Bryn666]

For the record there is of course the precedent that was set in West London when TfL elected to remove the lighting columns from the urbanA40 Westway for numerous reasons:

1. Life expired columns
2. Overspill from lighting adversely affected nearby properties
3. Maintenance access problems (central reserve columns)
4. Lighting not needed on access controlled elevated road

Now obviously we can't apply numbers 2 and 4 to a rural context, but 1 is a simple one to justify it on, if combined with 3 (replace central reserve for narrow 2.5 metre wide country track).

There's also the small matter of some of these lighting columns (if they're on the sort of roads I think you mean) being hazards to traffic in that they make an already narrow road even narrower and are not protected by reflective markers to emphasis their presence.

Whilst I doubt the immediate locals would be in favour of the rural sections being switched off, the longer term and wider benefits surely should outweigh the fact that anyone walking along the road will now need to carry a torch at night (although to be honest, I'd carry one anyway on a road like that).

It just seems a collosal waste of taxpayer's money these days to be lighting up mile upon mile of single track road in rural areas.

[boing_uk]

TRL PPR 318 would be a good read if you can get hold of a copy.

[worcsfan]

I hope that it is relevant to pose a query here.

I am sure that until 1979, there were GEC concrete standards every 200 yds or so from the Rocks Green part of Ludlow, along the A4117 Kidderminster road to the B4364 Bridgnorth turn.

When the by-pass [a good mile away from this point] opened, the standards were somehow removed and never replaced: I never knew anything like it until the Westway standards were removed.

This important road is still unlit. Anyone remember the road as it was and with the lights in situ?- a long shot, I know.

[Truvelo]

I'm sure some of the lighting on the former A30 to the east of Exeter was removed when it was bypassed.

[PeterA5145]

Looking to get a general view on the concept of removing street lighting from minor rural roads. I'm thinking of minor back roads in rural areas, that may have a higher speed limit, perhaps installed in the era when fog/smog was commonplace.

Are these rural unclassified roads with street lighting something of a West Yorkshire phenomenon? I can't think of many examples on this side of the Pennines. On the other hand, there are plenty of rural A-roads that seem to have unnecessary lighting – for example all of the A523 between Hazel Grove and Macclesfield, and all but a mile of the A56 between Chester and Warrington. If roads don't have substantial development and/or a significant number of pedestrians in the hours of darkness, I don't see much point in lighting them.

[Conekicker]

You've got to look at each road on a case by case basis. Are there footways, number of peds at night, on a route to school for kids, accident record, alignment, traffic flows, etc. There can't be a one size fits all solution.

I agree, try a cheap turn off before an expensive removal - but what do you do if there's a fatal/high profile incident that get's the locals heated up, even though the turn off was otherwise apparently successful?

You need to compare the whole life cost of a replacement scheme against any savings arising from removal and likely additional accidents? One fatal will wipe out any savings? Two or more and the locals will be clamouring for the lights to be put back?

On a derestricted route any replacement kit needs to be passively safe, unless you want the lawyers on your back - expensive either way.

[Chris5156]

As a road user I agree with Peter - if it's not built up and if there aren't pedestrians around, the lights are unnecessary. I'm more familiar with West Yorkshire's endless penchant for lighting rural A-roads (the A660/A65 all the way between Leeds and Ilkley always seemed particularly extravagant) and could never see a good reason to not just turn them all off.

[Brenley Corner]

I would be all in favour of removing lighting from minor rural roads if there a few pedestrians and a low traffic count. As a driver I am quite happy to drive on unlit roads.

I have to agree with other posters here that the penchant for lighting miles and miles of roads is very wasteful. Here in East Kent, miles and miles of dual carriageway are lit. The A299 is lit from end to end yet drive over it after 8pm and you'll hardly see another car. The A2 is also lit from M2 J7 to Canterbury. I find this bizarre as there is no lighting on the eastern end of the M2 (except through J7 itself) and the mainline A2 lighting runs out at the first exit for Canterbury leaving the rest of the A2 unlit until you get to Dover.

Essex and Buckinghamshire also seem to light a high proportion of wholly rural roads. (The A40 throughout Bucks, and the A127 and A13 throughout Essex are examples).

[si404]

Essex and Buckinghamshire also seem to light a high proportion of wholly rural roads. (The A40 throughout Bucks, and the A127 and A13 throughout Essex are examples).

I'm not sure the Bucks ones would get turned on - the A413, B416 and A404 ones aren't, with "Streetlighting not in use" signs scattered thinly about.

[J--M--B]

It's OK more people being killed in road accidents but when birds are affected.....

Street lights 'forcing birds to start dawn chorus too early and putting them at risk'

[roadrunner]

I much prefer to drive on unlit roads at night.

[Patrick Harper]

2. Overspill from lighting adversely affected nearby properties

Surely in that situation SOX would be ideal on Westway as it cuts down on glare for the properties below it. Unfortunately the Government isn't going to think twice about sticking that kind of lighting on any road anymore, just a thought.

[Mongrel]

I was led to believe, by the Street Lighting Manager of Birmingham, that once a local authority had taken the step to light a road it was legally bound to carry on doing so in perpetuity. Can anyone confirm this?

I agree that it is far safer to drive a narrow twisting country road if it is unlit, because you can see the lights of oncoming traffic illuminating the scenery long before you can see the vehicles themselves.

[Chris5156]

While this thread is active again - Haydn, any chance you could let us know the outcome of this? I'd be interested to hear what comes of it.

[boing_uk]

I was led to believe, by the Street Lighting Manager of Birmingham, that once a local authority had taken the step to light a road it was legally bound to carry on doing so in perpetuity. Can anyone confirm this?

Incorrect.

There is no legal obligation to provide any form of street lighting at all, or street lighting for the whole of the night either.

[Haydn1971]

While this thread is active again - Haydn, any chance you could let us know the outcome of this? I'd be interested to hear what comes of it.

It was raised, it was specifically quoted in the consultation document, yet has like so many ideas.... gone quiet...

I'll do some digging when I'm back in the office

[J--M--B]

I was somewhere the other week and noticed that all the lampposts had two or three white stripes around them, I did wonder at first whether this was the first stage before switching off as done during the blackout in WWII then I saw some with black stripes!