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Ooh, another thread!
<< The A329 joins my list (of one other, so far) of pointless long-way-around routes, where if one was to follow the route from beginning to end, it would be a significant amount shorter using another more direct route - in this case the A329/A330 to the M4 J8/9 and then the A404/M40 would to the trick. >>
I can think of a few: A38 from Exeter to Bodmin (use the A30), A48 from Gloucester to Carmarthen (use the A40), and even A1 from Darlington to Edinburgh (use the A68, if you can stand going up and down all those hills). And I was going to say A20 from London to Dover (use the A2), but come to think of it the A20 is probably more direct, so maybe it's the A2 that's the pointless one!
And of course the mysterious A361. If you were planning a journey from Ilfracombe in Devon to Kilsby in Northamptonshire, would you take anything resembling this route?
Plus the M25 -- the A282's much shorter
Guy
Guy: <<And I was going to say A20 from London to Dover (use the A2), but come to think of it the A20 is probably more direct, so maybe it's the A2 that's the pointless one!>>
Indeed. Why are they spending so much on widening the A2/M2 (and in the process causing the most incredible disruption and damage to the landscape) when it's still a single carriageway from Canterbury to Dover and therefore not a particularly useful road?? Why are they not spending money on far more worthy products (e.g. an M14)? And why aren't they taking this opportunity to change the colours of all the signs to blue (at least as far as the M25)? Not really joined-up thinking.
(I drove along it yesterday and was astounded by the size of the works.)
Guy: <<Plus the M25 -- the A282's much shorter >>
fat_guy33: <<Ah - but the M25 doesn't have a toll )>>
Perhaps they should call the A282 the "M25 Toll"!
Guy (collapsing in giggles)
LOL! I really don't see why people travel all around London, including going on our country's busiest stretch of motorway (past Heathrow) just to avoid paying a toll. Silly people )
Peter
<< LOL! I really don't see why people travel all around London, including going on our country's busiest stretch of motorway (past Heathrow) just to avoid paying a toll. Silly people ) >>
Hang on a minute! I think you may have fortuitously made a serious point here.
Suppose you were going on a journey that took you roughly halfway round the M25 (e.g. M23 to A1(M)). In terms of distance, there's no particular reason to go one way or the other, so naturally you're going to take the direction that doesn't involve a toll. The prediction from this would be that the busiest section of the M25 must be the one diametrically opposite the Dartford crossing -- and what do you know, that's precisely where it is!
So here's an interesting thought: would removing the tolls on the Dartford crossing ease congestion on the Heathrow section of the M25? It sounds crazy put like that, but the logic seems to work.
Guy
Guy: << Suppose you were going on a journey that took you roughly halfway round the M25 (e.g. M23 to A1(M)). In terms of distance, there's no particular reason to go one way or the other, so naturally you're going to take the direction that doesn't involve a toll. The prediction from this would be that the busiest section of the M25 must be the one diametrically opposite the Dartford crossing -- and what do you know, that's precisely where it is!
So here's an interesting thought: would removing the tolls on the Dartford crossing ease congestion on the Heathrow section of the M25? It sounds crazy put like that, but the logic seems to work.>>
Hmm. I went to the ORBIT exhibition early last year, in a PortaCabin in theidyllic surroundings of Clacket Lane Services. One of the moreinteresting diagrams theyhad showed the average number of junctions travelledalong the road by traffic entering at each junction. ISTR it was about 3-4 in the SE corner, and maybe 1-2 on the W section. (Unfortunately, the documents aren't available on their website, although you can email them to get them to send them to you.) I know this is an average and all that, but it does bring home the point that there is surpisingly little long-distance orbital traffic on the M25, and most of it is local.
Presumably the amount of local traffic is due to the lack of other suitable roads between key radial routes such as the M40, M1, etc, as well as the presence of Heathrow (a very large local employer, not to mention a transport hub itself - this all generates traffic). The M25 also runs just outside commuterland towns such as Reigate, Leatherhead, St Albans, ...
Below is an extractfrom p86 of the ORBIT commissioning report (in dense consultant-speak, I'm afraid), which is available to download on the website. <HR> Not fulfilling its function as a London Bypass One of the reasons for the high traffic volumes using the M25 is considered to be due to the number of short distance trips. Analysis of trip movements shows that as an overall average, for the whole of the M25, 50% of trips travel less than 2 to 3 junctions, 75% travel less than 4 to 5 junctions. Thus it is clear that the M25 is not fulfilling its function as a bypass for London. Indeed trips that are using the M25 as a bypass for London, i.e. with both trip-ends outside of the M25 ring may actually be attracted to the M25 as it provides a viable alternative route for long distance journeys. Numerous examples can be cited whereby the M25 provides access to the arterial network for trips from outside of the M25 ring which otherwise would remain on non-motorway cross-country routes. One example would be journeys between say Brighton and Dover where the M25 provides a viable route via the A23/M23/M26/M20 as opposed to the A27/A259. <HR>
Anytruck driver/sales rep/other professional travellerworth his salt would avoid M25 J10-16 like the plague during the morning and evening peak, and would probably go via Dartford even if the route were slightly longer (or more likely, stay off the road during these times). [BTW, let's not forget that this stretch of motorway is generally fine outside peak hours - the M6 is far worse]. And I suspect that professional travellers (rather than commuters / leisure travellers) make up a large proportion of long-distance traffic.
So, removal of the Dartford tolls may cause a few long-distance vehicles to divert, but I doubt it would have a significant impact on the congestion on the western section of the M25. FWIW, the tolls for motorcycles will be removed in the near future, to ease the flow of vehicles through the tolls (m'cyclists have to remove their glovesin order topay, which takes a while and significantly impedes following traffic, apparently). ISTR that goods vehicles will be charged less at night, to attempt to regulate the number of HGVs on the roads during peak hours.
