Major Road Network consultation

[Bryn666]

One would hope this would facilitate some housekeeping and fixing weird numbering anomalies so that navigation is made simpler too.

Navigation by number seems to be on its way out. Maybe not among us lot, but increasingly it's just Left or Right at the next junction, and that's it.

Colleague only this week has been an hour late at a business meeting through missing one digit on SatNav entry and driving to a place miles away. I just can't comprehend how you can have no real idea where you are going, and are just blindly following commands. But seems an increasing trend.

Which to me suggests we need to simplify the network a bit for these simpletons who can't do anything but blindly be told "follow the A692 for 29 miles" etc.

[Fenlander]

One would hope this would facilitate some housekeeping and fixing weird numbering anomalies so that navigation is made simpler too.

Navigation by number seems to be on its way out. Maybe not among us lot, but increasingly it's just Left or Right at the next junction, and that's it.

Colleague only this week has been an hour late at a business meeting through missing one digit on SatNav entry and driving to a place miles away. I just can't comprehend how you can have no real idea where you are going, and are just blindly following commands. But seems an increasing trend.

Which to me suggests we need to simplify the network a bit for these simpletons who can't do anything but blindly be told "follow the A692 for 29 miles" etc.

Thing is that if you're on the wrong road (or wrong direction) but don't know it you could drive for 29 miles and not have a clue where you were or even how you got there to reverse direction. Whether you use a map, satnav or dead reckoning you need to know where you are or where you're going to get started.

[Herned]

Colleague only this week has been an hour late at a business meeting through missing one digit on SatNav entry and driving to a place miles away. I just can't comprehend how you can have no real idea where you are going, and are just blindly following commands. But seems an increasing trend.

I was once in the village of Milverton (Somerset), and someone asked me where xxx road was. I said there was no such place, and he showed me an address: xxx road Milverton, Warwickshire. No idea where they had started, but to end up in Somerset when you wanted Warwickshire is quite an achievement

[PhilC]

I was once in the village of Milverton (Somerset), and someone asked me where xxx road was. I said there was no such place, and he showed me an address: xxx road Milverton, Warwickshire. No idea where they had started, but to end up in Somerset when you wanted Warwickshire is quite an achievement

Some years ago I had just turned off the M6 at Stafford and stopped in a lay-by. A foreign lorry driver came over to me with his delivery note. The address on it was Tamworth, Staffordshire. He had seen Staffordshire so he had driven to Stafford assuming Tamworth would be somewhere nearby. Just the 30 or so miles out.

[Vierwielen]

Colleague only this week has been an hour late at a business meeting through missing one digit on SatNav entry and driving to a place miles away. I just can't comprehend how you can have no real idea where you are going, and are just blindly following commands. But seems an increasing trend.

I was once in the village of Milverton (Somerset), and someone asked me where xxx road was. I said there was no such place, and he showed me an address: xxx road Milverton, Warwickshire. No idea where they had started, but to end up in Somerset when you wanted Warwickshire is quite an achievement

I have heard of worse - I recall reading about a lorry driver taking his lorry from Turkey to the Gibraltar Barracks and rather than going to the Minley area of Hampshire, ended up travelling through Spain!

[trickstat]

Navigation by number seems to be on its way out. Maybe not among us lot, but increasingly it's just Left or Right at the next junction, and that's it.

Colleague only this week has been an hour late at a business meeting through missing one digit on SatNav entry and driving to a place miles away. I just can't comprehend how you can have no real idea where you are going, and are just blindly following commands. But seems an increasing trend.

Which to me suggests we need to simplify the network a bit for these simpletons who can't do anything but blindly be told "follow the A692 for 29 miles" etc.

Thing is that if you're on the wrong road (or wrong direction) but don't know it you could drive for 29 miles and not have a clue where you were or even how you got there to reverse direction. Whether you use a map, satnav or dead reckoning you need to know where you are or where you're going to get started.

The problem with people doing all their navigation using instructions from a satnav is that they are less likely to develop an awareness of where places actually are and how they relate to each other compared with using maps .

[mikehindsonevans]

We had a refreshing "no-sat-nag" round trip to Cheshire over the past two days. BMW replaced a failed part of Her Ladyship's X1, wiping out all settings, but forgot to enter the activation code for the nav software. We found this out beyond the point of no return!

Thank heavens for a road atlas and a sense of direction. We reached Wythenshawe Hospital with ten minutes to spare.

Back to dealership this morning!

[Herned]

I have heard of worse - I recall reading about a lorry driver taking his lorry from Turkey to the Gibraltar Barracks and rather than going to the Minley area of Hampshire, ended up travelling through Spain!

Wow!

Back to the consultation, I had a quick look at the document, and one thing that struck me is how few responses there were to the consultation: 1,465 in total, from a population of ~50 million! Lots of whom drive to work and no doubt moan about the crapness of their experience. Should more be done to advertise consultations like this? How does anyone form a balanced view of opinion from such a small self-selected pool of responders?

[85CF380]

Back to the consultation, I had a quick look at the document, and one thing that struck me is how few responses there were to the consultation: 1,465 in total, ……………….

Yeah you're quite right. I went on holiday on the 24th & missed it. There was no mention/ cross ref etc of the consultation on the Highways England web that I noticed. Where did they hide it? Buried in the depths of DfT?

[Steven]

Back to the consultation, I had a quick look at the document, and one thing that struck me is how few responses there were to the consultation: 1,465 in total, from a population of ~50 million! Lots of whom drive to work and no doubt moan about the crapness of their experience. Should more be done to advertise consultations like this? How does anyone form a balanced view of opinion from such a small self-selected pool of responders?

One thing that is interesting - the DfT call out the "boilerplate" responses from the likes of the Campaign for Better Transport, and basically ignore them.

[WHBM]

It's about time the DfT took the London Red Route Network back from TfL and gave it to Highways England to manage. TfL have increasingly lost the plot with roads, in no small part because they seem to only recruit staff who turn up at the interview with a Green Party lapel badge; the old crew have been moved on. Furthermore they are a commercial organisation, their principal occupation is revenue-collecting public transport services, by rail, Underground and bus, plus whatever takes the current Mayor's fancy, like cycling. Any communication with them about roads, such as failed traffic signals, just gets a boilerplate response 6 weeks later with patronising encouragement to cycle.

A very significant proportion of the users of the Red Route Network, whether on the North Circular or across inner London, are those from outside London. You only have to look at the names on the lorry/van cab sides to realise this. The roads are used for far more than local journeys within London, although of course most have one end inside. Many more from the area outside come in on the network than Londoners go outside. Part of the justification for the Congestion Charge was that many who have to pay it have no chance to vote for/against it.

[fras]

IMHO consultation is now just a box-ticking exercise in 99% of them. It is mandated legally so must be done, but as it is consultation can be ignored if it doesn't fit with the management view. Of course where it does fit, the management will shout about it from the rooftops. I actually once, about 3 or 4 years ago, when reading an evidence session of something or other on the Parliamentary Select Committee on Transport webpages that one of the witnesses was challenged about them ignoring the consultation results and (it was a she), said they had to do it, but usually took no notice of it. Very honest, perhaps too honest !

[GeekyJames]

Not sure where is best to post this but transport for the South East has published MRN Priority schemes, good to see Northam Rail Bridge Replacement in Southampton!

https://transportforthesoutheast.org.uk ... y-2019.pdf

[NICK 647063]

So do we have any maps of the final major roads network? As the proposed routes where very different to what where proposed by the likes of transport for the north and as far as I was aware the final MRN would be published but can’t find anything.

[Glenn A]

I wish these consultations and studies would go somewhere and we get things done with the roads. While Extinction Rebellion and the mimsy middle class Green lobby loathe road transport, except bicycles, the vast majority of journeys in this country involve roads and motor vehicles. Contrary to what these people think, by passes improve the quality of life for people in places that are by passed, enable traffic to flow more smoothly and use less fuel, and reduce the amount of road accidents, reducing the burden on the NHS. A local example close to me is the D2 A595 Howgate- Distington by pass: it has removed 80% of traffic from the old A595 and made life far better for residents, the D2 flows smoothly most of the time, compared with the long tailbacks on the old road at peak times at the traffic lights at Lillyhall, and typlcally the D2 has about 3 accidents a year, while the old A595 had an accident at least once a week.

[DB617]

I wish these consultations and studies would go somewhere and we get things done with the roads. While Extinction Rebellion and the mimsy middle class Green lobby loathe road transport, except bicycles, the vast majority of journeys in this country involve roads and motor vehicles. Contrary to what these people think, by passes improve the quality of life for people in places that are by passed, enable traffic to flow more smoothly and use less fuel, and reduce the amount of road accidents, reducing the burden on the NHS. A local example close to me is the D2 A595 Howgate- Distington by pass: it has removed 80% of traffic from the old A595 and made life far better for residents, the D2 flows smoothly most of the time, compared with the long tailbacks on the old road at peak times at the traffic lights at Lillyhall, and typlcally the D2 has about 3 accidents a year, while the old A595 had an accident at least once a week.

I will monologue this to anyone who will listen! Making driving more difficult in car dependent and rural areas just tends to create misery rather than modal shift. Unless the modal shift approach is realistic and well run - and that is very difficult to get right - it's essentially a low cost or commitment option in many places. Take an example from my county, where a crucial bypass is tumbling in the giant Welsh Gov planning washing machine.

The proposal is for the A4055 Cardiff Road bypass of Dinas Powys and Eastbrook. This is a major local road, carrying tens of thousands of commuters daily tidally into and out of Barry and Cardiff. It's also a major severance road for the communities north and south of the conurbation and has a primary school yard all of 3 metres from its pinch point. For most of the school day, traffic which didn't start or finish in the village pumps diesel into the school atmosphere while battling the crossroads traffic lights. At rush hour there is a 2 mile tailback east from this junction starting at 2:30 when the pedestrian buttons are in constant use for around 2 hours. The kids, parents and other passing residents are swimming in vehicle exhaust. The proposed bypass would take almost all of this traffic onto a 60mph road at least 500m clear of the village fringes and cut journeys by around 20 minutes. On the other hand the multi modal option is to lay down new cycleways (off the A4055 since there is no room)(also likely sub-3
5m shared paths), hope that the people of Barry will all take to their bikes for the 5 mile journey to Cardiff or that TfW will some day put a usable service on the Vale line. The pinch point at the Murch remains and the community continues to be defined only by being a linear settlement wrapped around an A road, all slowly losing life expectancy. Cars are going to be a fact of life for a very long time, so why is it suddenly 'green' to perpetuate policies that make using or even being in the vicinity of major routes, utterly miserable and bad for your health?

[lefthandedspanner]

While Extinction Rebellion and the mimsy middle class Green lobby loathe road transport, except bicycles, the vast majority of journeys in this country involve roads and motor vehicles.

I will monologue this to anyone who will listen! Making driving more difficult in car dependent and rural areas just tend to create misery rather than modal shift.

The ideal solution is obviously to make everybody who currently lives outside London move into it. Shanty towns with no electricity, heat or running water are much more environmentally friendly than conventional housing.

[jackal]

So do we have any maps of the final major roads network? As the proposed routes where very different to what where proposed by the likes of transport for the north and as far as I was aware the final MRN would be published but can’t find anything.

It seems there is a map but it's not been made public:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 5227804520

[Glenn A]

I wish these consultations and studies would go somewhere and we get things done with the roads. While Extinction Rebellion and the mimsy middle class Green lobby loathe road transport, except bicycles, the vast majority of journeys in this country involve roads and motor vehicles. Contrary to what these people think, by passes improve the quality of life for people in places that are by passed, enable traffic to flow more smoothly and use less fuel, and reduce the amount of road accidents, reducing the burden on the NHS. A local example close to me is the D2 A595 Howgate- Distington by pass: it has removed 80% of traffic from the old A595 and made life far better for residents, the D2 flows smoothly most of the time, compared with the long tailbacks on the old road at peak times at the traffic lights at Lillyhall, and typlcally the D2 has about 3 accidents a year, while the old A595 had an accident at least once a week.

I will monologue this to anyone who will listen! Making driving more difficult in car dependent and rural areas just tends to create misery rather than modal shift. Unless the modal shift approach is realistic and well run - and that is very difficult to get right - it's essentially a low cost or commitment option in many places. Take an example from my county, where a crucial bypass is tumbling in the giant Welsh Gov planning washing machine.

The proposal is for the A4055 Cardiff Road bypass of Dinas Powys and Eastbrook. This is a major local road, carrying tens of thousands of commuters daily tidally into and out of Barry and Cardiff. It's also a major severance road for the communities north and south of the conurbation and has a primary school yard all of 3 metres from its pinch point. For most of the school day, traffic which didn't start or finish in the village pumps diesel into the school atmosphere while battling the crossroads traffic lights. At rush hour there is a 2 mile tailback east from this junction starting at 2:30 when the pedestrian buttons are in constant use for around 2 hours. The kids, parents and other passing residents are swimming in vehicle exhaust. The proposed bypass would take almost all of this traffic onto a 60mph road at least 500m clear of the village fringes and cut journeys by around 20 minutes. On the other hand the multi modal option is to lay down new cycleways (off the A4055 since there is no room)(also likely sub-3
5m shared paths), hope that the people of Barry will all take to their bikes for the 5 mile journey to Cardiff or that TfW will some day put a usable service on the Vale line. The pinch point at the Murch remains and the community continues to be defined only by being a linear settlement wrapped around an A road, all slowly losing life expectancy. Cars are going to be a fact of life for a very long time, so why is it suddenly 'green' to perpetuate policies that make using or even being in the vicinity of major routes, utterly miserable and bad for your health?

There is a distinct anti car bias among many local authorities, but they seem blind to the fact it's not very green to live next to a road that is constantly congested and that building this by pass would remove most of the traffic and pollution from Dinas Powys. I can't think of one place that hasn't benefited from a by pass. Most recently,I was in Haydon Bridge sitting outside the Anchor Hotel having a meal, and an old man commenting on how this would have been too unpleasant and noisy when the A69 went through the village, and also you can still see evidence of pollution on the hotel walls 11 years after the village was by passed. Also Haydon Bridge has a train every hour to Carlisle and Newcastle, so there is the alternative of public transport.

[RichardA35]

So do we have any maps of the final major roads network? As the proposed routes where very different to what where proposed by the likes of transport for the north and as far as I was aware the final MRN would be published but can’t find anything.

It seems there is a map but it's not been made public:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 5227804520

..and for those of us trying to track the schemes to try to build a business case to tender for major schemes on the LA network, it is very difficult to navigate a way between all the current funding pots such as the "Growth Fund", which pots will be replaced by the MRN funding and who administers the funding (LEP's? councils? SRTB's?)
Opaque is a word that comes to mind...