A77: Ayr to Stranraer

[clc]

I don't understand why Dalry Bypass is being built first. Maybole seems like a strategically more important upgrade.

[djw1981]

Links to Stranraer and Cairnryan are dire. The A75 was modernised on the cheap in the nineties as an S2 and the A77 south of Ayr is poor. I'd have both roads upgraded to D2, it's just not good enough to have Scotland's major ferry and freight ports served by such poor roads.

Does Scotland actually import that much from Ireland? I suspect a large chunk of the traffic coming off the ferries is headed for the M6 and not generating much business in Scotland, which will have an influence on the funding streams.

Though, having worked in the south, the A75 and A77 have death rates which would have caused a huge campaign for dualling had they been further north.

[AndyB]

Having been on the 3.30am boat from Belfast, a lot of lorries go north up the A77.

The key problem with both roads is that both have one-way peak flows around the times of the Larne and Belfast boats, and these flows don't pass each other until the worst part of the road is long over - and boy is the A77 bad before Ballantrae.

[c2R]

I use the A75 and the Cairnryan crossing a lot. I've used the A77 infrequently as well. The A75 has had several upgrades and bypasses over the last few years, but there are a few settlements and unimproved sections remaining.

I think that the scottish highways are doing the right thing by bypassing the remaining settlements and upgrading the S2 initially - and that further improvements should be considered over time, particularly with the completion of the A9 and Aberdeen bypasses.

The A751 has particularly poor alignment and bad junctions at each end - with both P&O and Stena sailing from Cairnryan now, these should be improved, possibly to roundabouts or for the A751 - A77 north to take priority at that junction/

Additionally, it would be usful for HGVs to be allowed to travel at a higher speed on the improved sections; I often see those travelling on the limiter overtaking those keeping to the 40mph limit, at various points on both roads.

[wrinkly]

The A75 has had several upgrades and bypasses over the last few years, but there are a few settlements and unimproved sections remaining.

The only settlements remaining are Crocketford and Springhom. Why they've been left unbypassed is a mystery, and why there are not even any current plans for them is a bigger one.

[djw1981]

Unlike the north /north east, they were';t SNP marginals in the run up to an election.

[Glen]

Unlike the north /north east, they were';t SNP marginals in the run up to an election.

It's punishment for voting Tory.

[djw1981]

IIRC the Tory seat is to the north east of Dumfries heading up to Moffat. Stranraer was Labour, now SNP.

[coneman]

IIRC the Tory seat is to the north east of Dumfries heading up to Moffat. Stranraer was Labour, now SNP.

As both these roads are under the auspices of Transport Scotland the constituency MSP's are Adam Ingram (SNP) covering the A77 south of Ayr , Alex Ferguson (Cons) covering the A77 to Stranraer & the A75 to Dumfries , and Dr Elaine Murray (Lab) covering the rest of the A75 to Gretna , so a right old mix of political parties , however when you factor in the South of Scotland Region list MSP'S polititans of all colours have an input.

[Gav]

Looking at Google earth -

I wonder if we should be looking away from an online upgrade - its a strategic route and at present there is no real alternative between Stranraer and Ayr. Id look at an off line more direct route from just south of Maybole through to the Water of App gorge. The traffic doesnt warrant motorway but attention should be give to width line of sight and gradients. Any gradients over a certain level would be given a climbing lane etc. Also what about trialing LED lighting with motion detection so that the road is given on demand light. That part of scotland has significant wildlife and having lighting would provide a worthwhile reduction in roadkill.

[djw1981]

IIRC the Tory seat is to the north east of Dumfries heading up to Moffat. Stranraer was Labour, now SNP.

As both these roads are under the auspices of Transport Scotland the constituency MSP's are Adam Ingram (SNP) covering the A77 south of Ayr , Alex Ferguson (Cons) covering the A77 to Stranraer & the A75 to Dumfries , and Dr Elaine Murray (Lab) covering the rest of the A75 to Gretna , so a right old mix of political parties , however when you factor in the South of Scotland Region list MSP'S polititans of all colours have an input.

I genuinely thought Elaine Murray had got the boot last time round in 2011. Maybe just a sign of her profile, working in the area we see & hear other politicians quite often.

[Glenn A]

IIRC the Tory seat is to the north east of Dumfries heading up to Moffat. Stranraer was Labour, now SNP.

In the eighties what was Dumfries and Galloway had two Tory MPs: Sir Hector Munro and Ian Lang. Dumfriesshire is the only part of Scotland to elect a Tory MP.

[clc]

Saw this in the SNP's manifesto:-

"£1.4 billion in improvements to the road network – including work on dualling the A9 and A96, bypassing Maybole on the A77 and improving other sections south of Girvan, further improvements to the A75, and exploring how to better connect Dumfries and the M74"

I wonder what they have planned for the A75?

On the A77 there were 3 schemes in preparation a few years ago: Ardwell to Slockenray and  Drummuckloch to Innermessan south of Girvan and the Burnside scheme just to the north. All three schemes disappeared from the Transport Scotland website when Maybole became the priority.

[Altnabreac]

Saw this in the SNP's manifesto:-

"£1.4 billion in improvements to the road network – including work on dualling the A9 and A96, bypassing Maybole on the A77 and improving other sections south of Girvan, further improvements to the A75, and exploring how to better connect Dumfries and the M74"

I wonder what they have planned for the A75?

On the A77 there were 3 schemes in preparation a few years ago: Ardwell to Slockenray and  Drummuckloch to Innermessan south of Girvan and the Burnside scheme just to the north. All three schemes disappeared from the Transport Scotland website when Maybole became the priority.

I think they read my post on the completing Scotland's motorway network thread and are stealing my idea for a new D2 road from Dumfries to Lockerbie.

I totally think it's a winner. Takes traffic off the A701 and A75 (and allows both to be detrunked and handed back to Local Authority). Gets people on motorway sooner. Improves access to rail network at Lockerbie. Everyone benefits.

[c2R]

I think they read my post on the completing Scotland's motorway network thread and are stealing my idea for a new D2 road from Dumfries to Lockerbie.

I totally think it's a winner. Takes traffic off the A701 and A75 (and allows both to be detrunked and handed back to Local Authority). Gets people on motorway sooner. Improves access to rail network at Lockerbie. Everyone benefits.

I doubt it - it's hillier and would require creating of a new road corridor. The existing route is on much flatter ground, and already has been substantially improved - I'd reckon they'll be thinking of improvements to existing substandard sections of the road and adding further bypasses of the remaining villages.

[Altnabreac]

I think they read my post on the completing Scotland's motorway network thread and are stealing my idea for a new D2 road from Dumfries to Lockerbie.

I totally think it's a winner. Takes traffic off the A701 and A75 (and allows both to be detrunked and handed back to Local Authority). Gets people on motorway sooner. Improves access to rail network at Lockerbie. Everyone benefits.

I doubt it - it's hillier and would require creating of a new road corridor. The existing route is on much flatter ground, and already has been substantially improved - I'd reckon they'll be thinking of improvements to existing substandard sections of the road and adding further bypasses of the remaining villages.

Needn't be that hilly if you vaguely follow the A709 corridor. Bypass Torthorwald to the north and then cut south of Castle Loch at Lochmaben. Reuse existing route at either end and it's not an entirely new transport corridor.

[Stevie D]

I think they read my post on the completing Scotland's motorway network thread and are stealing my idea for a new D2 road from Dumfries to Lockerbie.

I totally think it's a winner. Takes traffic off the A701 and A75 (and allows both to be detrunked and handed back to Local Authority). Gets people on motorway sooner. Improves access to rail network at Lockerbie. Everyone benefits.

I can't see that working, I'm afraid.

A bypass of Lochmaben is going to be a bit awkward, it will have to get quite close from the Dumfries-side to avoid the hills but will then have to swing well to the south to avoid Castle Loch and the castle itself, and any improvements will then come to an end where the road enters the outskirts of Lockerbie – alternatively, you could swing round to the north of Lochmaben and take a completely new alignment all the way to J17, which would be about 4½ miles of new road.

Is it worth it?
Bing puts Dumfries to Abington at 45 minutes via A701 or 9 minutes longer via A709; Google puts the difference at 6 minutes. Are you really going to save more than 6 (or 9?) minutes with a new d/c bypassing Lochmaben and linking directly to Route 74? Maybe, but it will be touch-and-go, it is still going to be a good 6 miles longer than the A701.

If you're going to spend that kind of money, I would rather see a bypass of Locharbriggs and some smaller improvements further up the A701, and improvements (GSJs) on the Dumfries by-pass, which is horribly congested for too much of the time. This would improve the route that is already faster and shorter, and would almost certainly be faster than an improved route to Lockerbie.

[northernlight]

I can't think that a major upgrade can be justified on this route, other than some realignment and perhaps some short D2 sections to allow safe overtaking. The suggestions of a motorway or a grade separated D2 all the way from Ayr sound way OTT.

[clc]

Maybole Bypass is now in procurement!

[wrinkly]

Press release

https://news.gov.scot/news/gbp-30-milli ... -for-grabs