M6(Toll) taking shape

[ravenbluemoon]

I do wonder how much traffic it could take off the parallel A5 if there was a sensible "cheap" toll for doing part of the M6 Toll? The slog through Brownhills and Cannock always seems unneccesarily busy when there's an empty motorway next to it. Make it (say) £2/£3 for the section between Lichfield and Cannock and I'd probably consider it during the peaks.

[Bryn666]

I do wonder how much traffic it could take off the parallel A5 if there was a sensible "cheap" toll for doing part of the M6 Toll? The slog through Brownhills and Cannock always seems unneccesarily busy when there's an empty motorway next to it. Make it (say) £2/£3 for the section between Lichfield and Cannock and I'd probably consider it during the peaks.

They do still offer the discount for short hops along the M6T but even this is in excess of a fiver and not worth it most of the time.

[Big L]

I do wonder how much traffic it could take off the parallel A5 if there was a sensible "cheap" toll for doing part of the M6 Toll? The slog through Brownhills and Cannock always seems unneccesarily busy when there's an empty motorway next to it. Make it (say) £2/£3 for the section between Lichfield and Cannock and I'd probably consider it during the peaks.

They do still offer the discount for short hops along the M6T but even this is in excess of a fiver and not worth it most of the time.

Only (at the moment) if you leave before or join after the mainline tollbooths.

[AndyB]

The M50 one is a complete PITA though without an e-Toll tag - whoever thought that 8pm was a good time to ask people to pay by definitely wanted people to miss paying though. And the website doesn't like GB plates, but does handle NI ones.

Both my cars are on their original GB plates, registered at NI addresses, and never had an issue :shrug:

NI folks tend to like non-standard fonts, I'd assumed the ANPR would be extra tweaked.

Yeah, mine just wasn't accepted at all on the website. I wrote to them and they sent me a bill in the post a few weeks later for the original amount rather than any extra.

To be fair, it’s 8pm the next day.

I used my tag for the first time today. Barriers spring into life on my approach.

[roadtester]

The M50 one is a complete PITA though without an e-Toll tag - whoever thought that 8pm was a good time to ask people to pay by definitely wanted people to miss paying though. And the website doesn't like GB plates, but does handle NI ones.

On a trip to Ireland back in 2019, I completely forgot about the M50 Toll until I got a letter back at home in the UK about a week later. If I remember correctly, as a first-time offender, they didn’t hit me with the full penalty but instead just asked me to pay the toll, or some other small amount (2 x the toll or something), can’t remember which.

Same thing happened the first and only time I forgot to pay at Dartford.

[exiled]

To be fair, it’s 8pm the next day.

I used my tag for the first time today. Barriers spring into life on my approach.

I managed to set up a photo account for the M50, better than going 'must pay toll' for about an hour until you forget. I have had a Liber-T toll for the French autoroutes, there is the frisson of worry that the barrier is not going to spring up as you approach especially the first time. That badge does go into hyperdrive on the Irish tolls though as it recognises the toll system but not to pay.

Another advantage is the feeling you get of the Audi passing you of 'how am I overtaking you for the third time in 20 km?'

[Helvellyn]

There should always be an option for paying a toll there and then, in person, by whatever (reasonably standard) means.

[RichardA35]

There should always be an option for paying a toll there and then, in person, by whatever (reasonably standard) means.

Unless I am missing something, there is no absolute right to drive across these tolls but it is done by agreement. The entity or business levying the toll has the right to vary its conditions to require payment by the means it deems appropriate, unless there is legislation that precludes that.
In this case there is the option to drive along the M6 avoiding the Toll.

[jnty]

There should always be an option for paying a toll there and then, in person, by whatever (reasonably standard) means.

This would be reasonable provided an extra premium were added to the price for paying in person which fully covered the extra costs incurred in providing the facility to do so. This might include a degree of compensation to the majority of ANPR users, in the form of subsidies to their tolls, for any delays caused by eg. queueing on the mainline caused by in-person payers. I suspect the reality is that these significant costs would end up shared by fewer and fewer users, resulting in an exorbitant premium and rendering the whole thing a bit pointless.

[wallmeerkat]

Both my cars are on their original GB plates, registered at NI addresses, and never had an issue :shrug:

NI folks tend to like non-standard fonts, I'd assumed the ANPR would be extra tweaked.

Yeah, mine just wasn't accepted at all on the website. I wrote to them and they sent me a bill in the post a few weeks later for the original amount rather than any extra.

To be fair, it’s 8pm the next day.

I used my tag for the first time today. Barriers spring into life on my approach.

M50 doesn't have barriers surely?

[AndyB]

Yeah, mine just wasn't accepted at all on the website. I wrote to them and they sent me a bill in the post a few weeks later for the original amount rather than any extra.

To be fair, it’s 8pm the next day.

I used my tag for the first time today. Barriers spring into life on my approach.

M50 doesn't have barriers surely?

It does at the Port Tunnel, but I meant at the M1 toll.

[Bryn666]

There should always be an option for paying a toll there and then, in person, by whatever (reasonably standard) means.

Unless I am missing something, there is no absolute right to drive across these tolls but it is done by agreement. The entity or business levying the toll has the right to vary its conditions to require payment by the means it deems appropriate, unless there is legislation that precludes that.
In this case there is the option to drive along the M6 avoiding the Toll.

My only criticism here is that NH and the operators of the M6T have not come to an agreement to place signage on the mainline M6 telling you that the toll road is cashless payments only (with a physical card). You can't use wave and pay on phones. This really needs to be communicated before someone joins the road.

[Big L]

By the time you’ve got here it’s a bit late.

[jnty]

I agree that it would be a more pleasant experience for non-cardholders if that was the case, but also suspect the long-standing casual attitude taken to signing it suggests that there is a relatively non-disruptive procedure for dealing with the occasional case where folk are caught out without a card.

[Bryn666]

I agree that it would be a more pleasant experience for non-cardholders if that was the case, but also suspect the long-standing casual attitude taken to signing it suggests that there is a relatively non-disruptive procedure for dealing with the occasional case where folk are caught out without a card.

Indeed, but you're served with a non-payment notice and have incurred a time and financial penalty for no reason other than the inability of two organisations to put up a sign where you can make an informed decision. This is exactly how conspiracy theories about revenue raising start.

[jnty]

I agree that it would be a more pleasant experience for non-cardholders if that was the case, but also suspect the long-standing casual attitude taken to signing it suggests that there is a relatively non-disruptive procedure for dealing with the occasional case where folk are caught out without a card.

Indeed, but you're served with a non-payment notice and have incurred a time and financial penalty for no reason other than the inability of two organisations to put up a sign where you can make an informed decision. This is exactly how conspiracy theories about revenue raising start.

Yeah, it's a bit pathetic.

One more bang on the drum for standardised ANPR application of all UK road charges with (at least to the appearance of the user) centralised and, once registered, automatic online payment. Just contract TfL to handle it, they could do with the cash.

[Vierwielen]

There should always be an option for paying a toll there and then, in person, by whatever (reasonably standard) means.

Unless I am missing something, there is no absolute right to drive across these tolls but it is done by agreement. The entity or business levying the toll has the right to vary its conditions to require payment by the means it deems appropriate, unless there is legislation that precludes that.
In this case there is the option to drive along the M6 avoiding the Toll.

My only criticism here is that NH and the operators of the M6T have not come to an agreement to place signage on the mainline M6 telling you that the toll road is cashless payments only (with a physical card). You can't use wave and pay on phones. This really needs to be communicated before someone joins the road.

I agree. If a motorist goes onto the M6(Toll) without any cards, but is able to settle the exact fee in cash using a reasonable combinations of notes and coins, what will the authorities do? They cannot turn him back at the tolls. They cannot have him blocking the exit gate. Although the Bank of England has published a page about legal tender, ir could be argued that under contract law, the contract was void because the parties had not agreed on the method of payment.

Also, does the M6(toll) accept American Express cards?

[wallmeerkat]

I wonder if this gentleman was having cash issues? https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6647271 ... ?entry=ttu

Seems the logical thing to try and get someone's attention from the building.

[BOH]

Unless I am missing something, there is no absolute right to drive across these tolls but it is done by agreement. The entity or business levying the toll has the right to vary its conditions to require payment by the means it deems appropriate, unless there is legislation that precludes that.
In this case there is the option to drive along the M6 avoiding the Toll.

My only criticism here is that NH and the operators of the M6T have not come to an agreement to place signage on the mainline M6 telling you that the toll road is cashless payments only (with a physical card). You can't use wave and pay on phones. This really needs to be communicated before someone joins the road.

I agree. If a motorist goes onto the M6(Toll) without any cards, but is able to settle the exact fee in cash using a reasonable combinations of notes and coins, what will the authorities do? They cannot turn him back at the tolls. They cannot have him blocking the exit gate. Although the Bank of England has published a page about legal tender, ir could be argued that under contract law, the contract was void because the parties had not agreed on the method of payment.

Also, does the M6(toll) accept American Express cards?

Yes

[Owain]

I agree that it would be a more pleasant experience for non-cardholders if that was the case, but also suspect the long-standing casual attitude taken to signing it suggests that there is a relatively non-disruptive procedure for dealing with the occasional case where folk are caught out without a card.

Indeed, but you're served with a non-payment notice and have incurred a time and financial penalty for no reason other than the inability of two organisations to put up a sign where you can make an informed decision. This is exactly how conspiracy theories about revenue raising start.

Yeah, it's a bit pathetic.

One more bang on the drum for standardised ANPR application of all UK road charges with (at least to the appearance of the user) centralised and, once registered, automatic online payment. Just contract TfL to handle it, they could do with the cash.

I still owe Scotland 60p for driving over the Erskine Bridge with no cash! I had a wide range of cards at hand, but the girl just said "Auch, just goo!" and raised the barrier. Amazing what an English accent and a smile can do...