Where are the Little Chefs going?

[Glenn A]

Frankie and Benny's did try quite hard to sell the American diner experience, even if they did overdo the kitschy Americana too much, and unlike Little Chef, their prices were reasonable and the food of a better standard. The main problem was they changed the menu too much and the portions were kept small to keep prices down( maybe a ruse to get customers to buy a second course).

[Big L]

I never had a problem with their portions. The pasta bolognese with meatballs is very filling, and I’m a pretty big eater. I rarely have dessert there.

[exiled]

I found their portions ok, much better than the style of throw everything on a plate. More like the portions in the likes of Buffalo Grill in France, and I think that makes it more pleasant as a meal esp a multi course meal.

[avtur]

I found their portions ok, much better than the style of throw everything on a plate. More like the portions in the likes of Buffalo Grill in France, and I think that makes it more pleasant as a meal esp a multi course meal.

Whatever the portion size in the UK, nothing comes close to the "standard" offerings in the USA ... well that is my experience.

[RichardA626]

My local Frankie and Benny's is now a Tim Horton's.

Many years ago I took my then Chinese girlfriend to one for a meal, which she found an experience as she was confused why it was both an Italian & American restaurant at the same time!

[SteveA30]

I don't know why Brightside are highlighting the most expensive breakfasts. They should be mentioning the Early Riser at £8.95, veggie option same price. Latte 3.30. 4 outlets planned, including A1 Stretton which I think was an AJ's, a short-lived brand that was swallowed up by one of the LC vandalising companies.

Tim Hortons have hardly any presence in the south so far. Plymouth and a new one on the Chichester bypass, which is next to a Costa I use when on the A27. I'll give it a try next time.

I'm not inspired by pub like chains, drab dark interiors and pub atmosphere. As a lifelong beer and spirits avoider, they have nothing I want, or have ever wanted.

[roadtester]

I’m hoping to get down there soon. I’m quite a fan of Wendy’s but I haven’t been since they re-entered the UK market.

It won’t be the same without the square burger patty.

I’m sitting in Wendy’s at Brampton Hut right now and I’m happy to say that reports of the death of the square patty are, to quote Mark Twain, greatly exaggerated!

All very tasty. I’ll be back.

[the cheesecake man]

Interesting ambition and good luck to them. If they expand to the right parts of the country I will almost certainly give them a try. But if the prices noted are typical it'll probably be just once.

It seems this deals with some of the Little-Chef-specific reasons for Little Chef's decline and fall (such as not keeping up to date, neglect by a succession of short-term owners, and road upgrades demolishing the sites or removing the supply of passing customers.) But there's still all the general factors noted throughout this thread that have reduced the demand for proper roadside meals, and the increased competition for that niche. Is there really enough demand for Little Chef II as well as all the roadside pubs that weren't there competing with Little Chef in the 70s and 80s? I hope so but strongly suspect not.

[trickstat]

Interesting ambition and good luck to them. If they expand to the right parts of the country I will almost certainly give them a try. But if the prices noted are typical it'll probably be just once.

It seems this deals with some of the Little-Chef-specific reasons for Little Chef's decline and fall (such as not keeping up to date, neglect by a succession of short-term owners, and road upgrades demolishing the sites or removing the supply of passing customers.) But there's still all the general factors noted throughout this thread that have reduced the demand for proper roadside meals, and the increased competition for that niche. Is there really enough demand for Little Chef II as well as all the roadside pubs that weren't there competing with Little Chef in the 70s and 80s? I hope so but strongly suspect not.

I think there may be some potential but with fewer outlets that are very carefully and strategically located. For example where a lot of travellers are undertaking long journeys but are not in too much of a hurry and there are a lack of other non fast food options nearby.

[B1040]

I don't know why Brightside are highlighting the most expensive breakfasts. They should be mentioning the Early Riser at £8.95, veggie option same price. Latte 3.30. 4 outlets planned, including A1 Stretton which I think was an AJ's, a short-lived brand that was swallowed up by one of the LC vandalising companies.

I thought the A1 Stretton site was on the Ram Jam Inn site.
I think that I also read rumours on Cambridge News they might be putting one on the A505 site of the derelict pub just west of Royston.

[KeithW]

I think the time has past for the concept that LC, Happy Eater and the like filled. Even in the day my preference was for the Transport Caff like the Hillside Cafe on the A1, opposite the Blyth Services or the Stibbington Diner near Peterborough which god preserve it is still with us. or was last year.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.57171 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.sluurpy.co.uk/peterborough/ ... s/34656865

[KeithW]

I don't know why Brightside are highlighting the most expensive breakfasts. They should be mentioning the Early Riser at £8.95, veggie option same price. Latte 3.30. 4 outlets planned, including A1 Stretton which I think was an AJ's, a short-lived brand that was swallowed up by one of the LC vandalising companies.

I thought the A1 Stretton site was on the Ram Jam Inn site.
I think that I also read rumours on Cambridge News they might be putting one on the A505 site of the derelict pub just west of Royston.

The Ram Jam has been derelict for years, last I heard there was an Applegreen's planned for there.

[SteveA30]

I like a good transport caff as well but, they are becoming rarer than a coherent Gov transport policy. LC have to take some of the blame for that though as in the early 70's, they bought out many caffs to convert them to LC's. Apparently due to LA's constant refusal of planning permission for new locations, so I'll blame them instead.....

One that has survived is the Shack Cafe at Hook, now the only one of 14 that once graced the A30 from Basingstoke to Bagshot. A real time warp place. Go in the morning though as it closes around 2pm

[ROAD ROVER]

I think the time has past for the concept that LC, Happy Eater and the like filled. Even in the day my preference was for the Transport Caff like the Hillside Cafe on the A1, opposite the Blyth Services or the Stibbington Diner near Peterborough which god preserve it is still with us. or was last year.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.57171 ... 8192?hl=en
https://www.sluurpy.co.uk/peterborough/ ... s/34656865

Stibbington Diner is still there but under new management with a severely truncated menu. Last time we were there we were told that they didn't do salads any more & it seemed that burgers were the main fayre on offer.
I fear the worst.

[B1040]

Good job I'm about to finish my journeys when I pass Stibbington then.

[rhyds]

I like a good transport caff as well but, they are becoming rarer than a coherent Gov transport policy. LC have to take some of the blame for that though as in the early 70's, they bought out many caffs to convert them to LC's. Apparently due to LA's constant refusal of planning permission for new locations, so I'll blame them instead.....

One that has survived is the Shack Cafe at Hook, now the only one of 14 that once graced the A30 from Basingstoke to Bagshot. A real time warp place. Go in the morning though as it closes around 2pm

The problem I find with transport cafes is that unless you've got a passenger to check up online for you in advance you're never sure if they're even open and what the food is going to be like. As often as Mcdonalds/Burger King/Wetherspoons/Marstons/Whitbread chain pubs are derided you know what you're going to get and what the regular opening hours are.

[SteveA30]

I quite agree. Many former transport cafe owners were partly the architect of their own demise by sticking rigidly to traditional hours, often closing at 2 or 3 or in some cases, 1pm. Other markets were ignored. Apart from being bypassed, developers offering to buy them has been too much to resist for many, even when they were still open.

The Ace on the NCR is an example of how a bit of initiative could save some of them. Reach out to new customer bases and most of all, open at weekends...

https://london.acecafe.com/

[Isleworth1961]

The Ace on the NCR is an example of how a bit of initiative could save some of them. Reach out to new customer bases and most of all, open at weekends...

https://london.acecafe.com/

I feel that that the Ace Cafe is going to lose quite a bit of its enthusiast customer base in the future from people outside the London area, due to the upcoming increase of the London ULEZ. Many car and bike enthusiasts use vehicles that don't meet ULEZ standards, and which also aren't yet old enough for (ULEZ-exempt) Historic Vehicle registration. I'll still occasionally take my 42 year old bike (I could even take my 22 year old car, as that is ULEZ exempt!), but I certainly won't be taking my 32 year old bike there once the zone is enlarged. I pity the owners of older non-compliant vehicles and the enthusiasts whose vehicles are non-compliant in London - it's going to start getting expensive for them.

[tom66]

Frankie and Benny's did try quite hard to sell the American diner experience, even if they did overdo the kitschy Americana too much, and unlike Little Chef, their prices were reasonable and the food of a better standard. The main problem was they changed the menu too much and the portions were kept small to keep prices down( maybe a ruse to get customers to buy a second course).

The problem I had with F&B's is the food was basically of Wetherspoons standard - not offensive, but not great by any means. (I never tried their pasta dishes to be fair, but their pizzas were distinctly unimpressive, as were their burgers.)

They also relied heavily on overpriced menus with heavy discounting to bring prices down - this has a psychological effect of making people think they're getting a "deal" (I remember my father taking us there because he had a 50% off voucher... which is more or less the standard offer if you have their 'app' installed on your phone now.) The problem I suspect is when people keep getting 'deals' the effect weakens each time and people just realise it's a ruse.

Before COVID though, they did seem reasonably busy, though I suspect they have been on a long run decline and COVID pushed them over the edge.

[hat]

Frankie and Benny's did try quite hard to sell the American diner experience, even if they did overdo the kitschy Americana too much, and unlike Little Chef, their prices were reasonable and the food of a better standard. The main problem was they changed the menu too much and the portions were kept small to keep prices down( maybe a ruse to get customers to buy a second course).

The problem I had with F&B's is the food was basically of Wetherspoons standard - not offensive, but not great by any means. (I never tried their pasta dishes to be fair, but their pizzas were distinctly unimpressive, as were their burgers.)

They also relied heavily on overpriced menus with heavy discounting to bring prices down - this has a psychological effect of making people think they're getting a "deal" (I remember my father taking us there because he had a 50% off voucher... which is more or less the standard offer if you have their 'app' installed on your phone now.) The problem I suspect is when people keep getting 'deals' the effect weakens each time and people just realise it's a ruse.

Before COVID though, they did seem reasonably busy, though I suspect they have been on a long run decline and COVID pushed them over the edge.

have to assume they've been hit hard by the huge fall in cinema audiences as well during & post covid. many of their locations are on developments with a multiplex of one variant or another, and a fair chunk of their customers would be pre & post cinema goers