Botched Roadsigns
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- Bfivethousand
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
The A4215 initially is non-primary.
https://goo.gl/maps/WPLBChUnUELtoo927
Then a short way down the road it changes its mind and says "Nah, I want to be primary like the A470".
https://goo.gl/maps/31oFCfBQUprNtC6m7
https://goo.gl/maps/WPLBChUnUELtoo927
Then a short way down the road it changes its mind and says "Nah, I want to be primary like the A470".
https://goo.gl/maps/31oFCfBQUprNtC6m7
- MotorwayGuy
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Been to Wigan today. I noticed quite a few signs such as the one captured here in the middle showing Bolton & Manchester. I'm not sure if they are correct. But they seem like a crossover between a stack type sign (with only 1 stack) and a route confirmation sign (with added route numbers). Wigan council seem to like them as i saw 3 or 4 like this in proximity of the town centre.
Edit' here is a link to another here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5470411 ... 384!8i8192
Edit' here is a link to another here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5470411 ... 384!8i8192
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Google Street View in Manchester
This is fine, it's an all purpose road. Then you turn left at the junction... and pass and "end of motorway restrictions" sign!
But it gets worse. It looks like a pavement on the right, albeit a narrow one. No "no pedestrians", just what looks like a footway straight onto the A57(M)
I was having a poke around this one after reading pathetic motorways.
This is fine, it's an all purpose road. Then you turn left at the junction... and pass and "end of motorway restrictions" sign!
But it gets worse. It looks like a pavement on the right, albeit a narrow one. No "no pedestrians", just what looks like a footway straight onto the A57(M)
I was having a poke around this one after reading pathetic motorways.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
It's a complete mess down there which boils back to the A57(M) was not originally a motorway and the restrictions were added later, with varying rates of success...solocle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:17 Google Street View in Manchester
This is fine, it's an all purpose road. Then you turn left at the junction... and pass and "end of motorway restrictions" sign!
But it gets worse. It looks like a pavement on the right, albeit a narrow one. No "no pedestrians", just what looks like a footway straight onto the A57(M)
I was having a poke around this one after reading pathetic motorways.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
- MotorwayGuy
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Considering how many roads there are that should be motorways but aren't, this makes it almost funny. I also like how the "New 30mph Speed Limit" signs at the start of the slip road were there in 2009 and are still there now.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 14:10It's a complete mess down there which boils back to the A57(M) was not originally a motorway and the restrictions were added later, with varying rates of success...solocle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:17 Google Street View in Manchester
This is fine, it's an all purpose road. Then you turn left at the junction... and pass and "end of motorway restrictions" sign!
But it gets worse. It looks like a pavement on the right, albeit a narrow one. No "no pedestrians", just what looks like a footway straight onto the A57(M)
I was having a poke around this one after reading pathetic motorways.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
While routes like the A303 should probably be motorways, not in their current form. Without remedial works that cost money, it's not a simple question of plopping up blue signs like seems to have been done in Manchester. You need to provide an alternative route for prohibited traffic - parts of the A303 are extremely difficult to avoid, for instance: Yep, literally cycle directions to a national speed limit dual carriageway trunk road...MotorwayGuy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 16:06Considering how many roads there are that should be motorways but aren't, this makes it almost funny. I also like how the "New 30mph Speed Limit" signs at the start of the slip road were there in 2009 and are still there now.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 14:10It's a complete mess down there which boils back to the A57(M) was not originally a motorway and the restrictions were added later, with varying rates of success...solocle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:17 Google Street View in Manchester
This is fine, it's an all purpose road. Then you turn left at the junction... and pass and "end of motorway restrictions" sign!
But it gets worse. It looks like a pavement on the right, albeit a narrow one. No "no pedestrians", just what looks like a footway straight onto the A57(M)
I was having a poke around this one after reading pathetic motorways.
And still National Highways are pushing ahead with further dualling schemes on this very corridor (Sparkford to Ilchester) without adequate NMU provision...
I'd suggest making a law prohibiting any further online dualling schemes without a cycleway suitable for Chris Hoy speeds alongside, but that's me...
- MotorwayGuy
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
As said above, I totally agree. The section of the A2 Between Bexley and the M2 is a motorway in all but name, it even has hard shoulders. The reason for not making it so has always been stated that there is no alternative route for non-motorway traffic, so indeed there are no restrictions to prevent you from cycling along there. There even used to be a sign here warning cyclists of "narrow lanes ahead" but it was removed before streetview was a thing. I've never seen a cyclist or pedestrian on this section but slow-moving farm vehicles do appear on the section near Gravesend periodicity, often resulting in sudden lane changes and braking and certainly isn't ideal.
The new A14 actually prohibits the same traffic a motorway does and is built to motorway standards, which begs the question why isn't it a motorway?
The new A14 actually prohibits the same traffic a motorway does and is built to motorway standards, which begs the question why isn't it a motorway?
- ForestChav
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Probably if they'd put the chopsticks sign just before that turn it wouldn't matter at all, as it stands you're going to be under motorway restrictions accidentally for how far? A few metres tops. It's a mess, but it's not going to cause chaos, only in a technical sense.solocle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:17 Google Street View in Manchester
This is fine, it's an all purpose road. Then you turn left at the junction... and pass and "end of motorway restrictions" sign!
But it gets worse. It looks like a pavement on the right, albeit a narrow one. No "no pedestrians", just what looks like a footway straight onto the A57(M)
I was having a poke around this one after reading pathetic motorways.
Probably because there would be political pressure on it if it was, it's not the only stretch of A-road with special restrictions after all.MotorwayGuy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 21:21 As said above, I totally agree. The section of the A2 Between Bexley and the M2 is a motorway in all but name, it even has hard shoulders. The reason for not making it so has always been stated that there is no alternative route for non-motorway traffic, so indeed there are no restrictions to prevent you from cycling along there. There even used to be a sign here warning cyclists of "narrow lanes ahead" but it was removed before streetview was a thing. I've never seen a cyclist or pedestrian on this section but slow-moving farm vehicles do appear on the section near Gravesend periodicity, often resulting in sudden lane changes and braking and certainly isn't ideal.
The new A14 actually prohibits the same traffic a motorway does and is built to motorway standards, which begs the question why isn't it a motorway?
Such roads should definitely come with a 2-way cycle road alongside them though because in this case it's much safer to completely segregate cyclists from the much quicker (and much more) road traffic than have them alongside HGVs and stuff doing 60-70 mph all the way.
C, E flat and G go into a bar. The barman says "sorry, we don't serve minors". So E flat walks off, leaving C and G to share an open fifth between them.
Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I mean, the key thing is to put the "end sign" just before the turning and match it with no entry / no pedestrians signs on the other side.ForestChav wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 21:42Probably if they'd put the chopsticks sign just before that turn it wouldn't matter at all, as it stands you're going to be under motorway restrictions accidentally for how far? A few metres tops. It's a mess, but it's not going to cause chaos, only in a technical sense.solocle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:17 Google Street View in Manchester
This is fine, it's an all purpose road. Then you turn left at the junction... and pass and "end of motorway restrictions" sign!
But it gets worse. It looks like a pavement on the right, albeit a narrow one. No "no pedestrians", just what looks like a footway straight onto the A57(M)
I was having a poke around this one after reading pathetic motorways.
Probably because there would be political pressure on it if it was, it's not the only stretch of A-road with special restrictions after all.MotorwayGuy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 21:21 As said above, I totally agree. The section of the A2 Between Bexley and the M2 is a motorway in all but name, it even has hard shoulders. The reason for not making it so has always been stated that there is no alternative route for non-motorway traffic, so indeed there are no restrictions to prevent you from cycling along there. There even used to be a sign here warning cyclists of "narrow lanes ahead" but it was removed before streetview was a thing. I've never seen a cyclist or pedestrian on this section but slow-moving farm vehicles do appear on the section near Gravesend periodicity, often resulting in sudden lane changes and braking and certainly isn't ideal.
The new A14 actually prohibits the same traffic a motorway does and is built to motorway standards, which begs the question why isn't it a motorway?
Such roads should definitely come with a 2-way cycle road alongside them though because in this case it's much safer to completely segregate cyclists from the much quicker (and much more) road traffic than have them alongside HGVs and stuff doing 60-70 mph all the way.
But as for hard shoulders, how about cycling on the former M27 spur [A36(M)]:
I have to say that it worked quite effectively as a bike lane while not dealing with junctions. Hardly ideal, but it beats your bog standard NSL D2.
- Conekicker
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I think in other countries it would be normal to provide a single track road which acts as a local farm traffic/NMU access road. The alternative where roads just end up with complex legal status to avoid them having blue signs does absolutely nothing for the users (motorised or not) the "alternative route rule" is presumably intended to protect. Has the feeling of 'parliamentary trains' where railway lines avoid formal closure by providing a useless service - laws presumably at one point designed to protect passengers just end up creating a lose-lose situation for everyone.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Personally I quite like where it's an S2, as it makes for a more freeflowing journey on a bike. Although it does significantly increase the speeds of the motorists passing you, too: But when we move away from motorways such layouts are generally very patchy indeed. The A30 west of Honiton has to be one of the most contiguous old roads I've encountered, and yet there were times I was on the main dual carriageway to join them up. And there was a detour along the A39/A395 to avoid the 15 mile section across Bodmin Moor.jnty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:22I think in other countries it would be normal to provide a single track road which acts as a local farm traffic/NMU access road. The alternative where roads just end up with complex legal status to avoid them having blue signs does absolutely nothing for the users (motorised or not) the "alternative route rule" is presumably intended to protect. Has the feeling of 'parliamentary trains' where railway lines avoid formal closure by providing a useless service - laws presumably at one point designed to protect passengers just end up creating a lose-lose situation for everyone.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Yeah, I'm thinking of tracks which provide no reasonable through route and are literally only for field access and the like. If there's going to be any level of "general traffic" you'd want a slow shared S2 or separate provision.solocle wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:55Personally I quite like where it's an S2, as it makes for a more freeflowing journey on a bike. Although it does significantly increase the speeds of the motorists passing you, too:jnty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:22I think in other countries it would be normal to provide a single track road which acts as a local farm traffic/NMU access road. The alternative where roads just end up with complex legal status to avoid them having blue signs does absolutely nothing for the users (motorised or not) the "alternative route rule" is presumably intended to protect. Has the feeling of 'parliamentary trains' where railway lines avoid formal closure by providing a useless service - laws presumably at one point designed to protect passengers just end up creating a lose-lose situation for everyone.
capture4.jpg
But when we move away from motorways such layouts are generally very patchy indeed. The A30 west of Honiton has to be one of the most contiguous old roads I've encountered, and yet there were times I was on the main dual carriageway to join them up. And there was a detour along the A39/A395 to avoid the 15 mile section across Bodmin Moor.
capture5.jpg
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
That I think is an issue with the way Motorways are usually signed. The entry slips have chopsticks, which includes "no pedestrians", so that's fine. The exit slips usually have "no entry" (or in this case "turn left") - but these don't apply to pedestrians! So in most cases there's no sign that prohibits pedestrians from entering the motorway via the exit slip, or even informing them that it is a motorway.
For a random example - You shouldn't walk up here. But where is the sign to say you can't?
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Actually to be really pedantic there's no sign indicating the start of motorway restrictions at the corresponding entry slip... Yes, the direction sign has chopsticks, but it was only a few weeks ago that I, completely legitimately, cycled past just such a sign:SteelCamel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 15:29That I think is an issue with the way Motorways are usually signed. The entry slips have chopsticks, which includes "no pedestrians", so that's fine. The exit slips usually have "no entry" (or in this case "turn left") - but these don't apply to pedestrians! So in most cases there's no sign that prohibits pedestrians from entering the motorway via the exit slip, or even informing them that it is a motorway.
For a random example - You shouldn't walk up here. But where is the sign to say you can't?
You can see that I did weigh it up before doing that, it's cruddy signage.
Also when in the area I could have cycled straight onto the A74(M) from Gretna Services for the same reason, but worse I had to follow Welcome Break direction signs to the A74(M) South to return to the B7076 North! Then again, we all know what motorway services are like...
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- Conekicker
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Northern Ireland "Now how shall we sign the start of a motorway":
This...
Or this...
Maybe this...
And finally perhaps this?
I've seen some very strange things over here this last couple of weeks, including more warning triangles and supplementary plates so old that the red has faded to pink or nothing than I've ever seen anywhere else in such numbers.
Having said that, apart from one peak period in Belfast , it's been a pleasure driving around here, the roads seem so quiet.
This...
Or this...
Maybe this...
And finally perhaps this?
I've seen some very strange things over here this last couple of weeks, including more warning triangles and supplementary plates so old that the red has faded to pink or nothing than I've ever seen anywhere else in such numbers.
Having said that, apart from one peak period in Belfast , it's been a pleasure driving around here, the roads seem so quiet.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
- Conekicker
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
This is stretching Diagram 2403.1 to the limit. It does have a certain something about it though.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.