A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

[Glen]

The three loch-side sections - Tarbet to Ardlui, Onich to Fort William and Fort Augustus to Lochend - are somewhat restricted by the geography. To get any sort of significant improvement to the horizontal alignment huge amounts of earthworks would be needed, like cutting in to or building on to steep rock faces. The costs of such work would be immense compared to the relatively small improvements to journey times they would make.

None of the A82 has traffic levels to warrant D2. What it needs are targeted improvements, such as removing obvious bottlenecks (eg Pulpit Rock and Crianlarich) and creating more overtaking opportunities where this can be done in a cost effective manner (eg realignments and overtaking lanes where there is easy to build in terrain).

What you have to remember is that improving a below average S2 to a high standard S2 isn't a huge improvement and doesn't bring such benefits as improving a single track route to modern S2 does (lower cost to benefit).
So while you can compare the A82 to a route that is clearly a higher standard like the A830, or even a non-trunk road like the A832 or A851, you need to consider that they were a much lower standard to start with, so while the upgrades to them may have been costly they brought a massive improvement to users of those routes (hence better cost to benefit).

[wrinkly]

I believe they are now in the early stages of planning an upgrade of the section from Tarbet to Inverarnan, to much the same standard that Balloch to Tarbet was done 15 years ago (or whenever it was).

Maybe in another 10 years they'll be doing the same alongside Loch Ness.

[J--M--B]

The three loch-side sections - Tarbet to Ardlui, Onich to Fort William and Fort Augustus to Lochend - are somewhat restricted by the geography. To get any sort of significant improvement to the horizontal alignment huge amounts of earthworks would be needed, like cutting in to or building on to steep rock faces. The costs of such work would be immense compared to the relatively small improvements to journey times they would make.

None of the A82 has traffic levels to warrant D2. What it needs are targeted improvements, such as removing obvious bottlenecks (eg Pulpit Rock and Crianlarich) and creating more overtaking opportunities where this can be done in a cost effective manner (eg realignments and overtaking lanes where there is easy to build in terrain).

What you have to remember is that improving a below average S2 to a high standard S2 isn't a huge improvement and doesn't bring such benefits as improving a single track route to modern S2 does (lower cost to benefit).
So while you can compare the A82 to a route that is clearly a higher standard like the A830, or even a non-trunk road like the A832 or A851, you need to consider that they were a much lower standard to start with, so while the upgrades to them may have been costly they brought a massive improvement to users of those routes (hence better cost to benefit).

When I have looked at traffic levels in the past, the A82 is not that much different from the A9. It is slightly lower but just a few percent and certainly not enough to justify the huge difference in spending on the two roads.

[Helvellyn]

When I have looked at traffic levels in the past, the A82 is not that much different from the A9. It is slightly lower but just a few percent and certainly not enough to justify the huge difference in spending on the two roads.

Which brings us back to geography and a lot of the A82 being in difficult terrain compared with the A9. Spend the same amount of money on the A82 as the A9 and you'll be able to do a lot less with it.

[Mark Hewitt]

If you take A9 upgrades as a given would upgrading the A86 then not be of bigger benefit than the A82?

[J--M--B]

If you take A9 upgrades as a given would upgrading the A86 then not be of bigger benefit than the A82?

Can't see it would help much. Apart from the bit nearly washed away, only the part at the East end of Loch Laggan needs improving sometime. It would make it better in the many times traffic is diverted across to the A82 from the A9 though it would then grind to a halt once it got to Spean Bridge.

Even if they made the A86 six lane motorway at the same time as the A9, I can't imagine many using it to get to Inverness or Glasgow. Most of the traffic is going across towards Aberdeen or Edinburgh.

[owen b]

My experience of the A82 is that it doesn't justify very costly improvements except at Pulpit Rock, at least not relative to many important routes elsewhere in Scotland let alone Great Britain.

I am a reasonably conservative overtaker and by and large stick to speed limits. On a recent return trip from Fort William, in filthy weather, on a busy day (bank holiday south of the border, many tourists returning south) I managed to get by a convoy of vehicles heading into Glencoe, another convoy between the ski centre and Loch Tulla, a few more vehicles before Tyndrum, another convoy east of Crianlarich (admittedly now on the A85/A84 route back to Stirling) and a handful of cars before Callander. If you want to make good progress you usually can.

The A82 is not very busy and has a lot of overtaking spots (admittedly interspersed with a few miles here and there where you have to be patient). The A82 between Tarbet and Crianlarich is strategically less important than further north because the long distance through traffic to/from the M74 south east of Glasgow and other more easterly places can split off and use the A85/A84, so while Pulpit Rock needs sorting out I'd be reluctant to prioritise very expensive improvements north of Tarbet ahead of other similarly expensive road projects elsewhere in Scotland.

[Glenn A]

Whatever else it might be, the A82 has some spectacular scenery once you get past Clydeside.

[J--M--B]

There are reports in the local newspapers about a meeting held last week about the A82. The previous week there was a lorry fire just outside Fort William. The road was closed for 10 hours because of this fire, much of the meeting seems to have been about this long closure with a local recovery firm having a lot to say. The fire brigade left the area at 1000h but the road did not open until 1615h. A lot of time seems to have spent trying to find a heavy recovery vehicle so a local haulage company helped out with one of their timber lorry's crane.

The recovery contractor calls for recovery to be handled in house by Traffic Scotland "rather than by venture capitalist companies only there for the coin" - presumably the AA? He reckons he could have moved the trailer and cleared enough debris to get one lane open in about two hours rather than the six and a quarter hours it took. He says they then could have moved the rest at night.

A bus went off the road on the diversionary route and ended on its side in a ditch. He was called to recover the bus but the police would not let him do so until the A82 was open. He got fed up waiting so just recovered it anyway, it took him eighteen minutes.

There was something else in the paper about a month or so ago after a serious RTA over Glencoe. On that occasion they had to wait for a recovery vehicle to arrive from Elgin I think I read.

It sounds rather as if the police or Traffic Scotland don't have any time penalties in their contract with the AA.

[rileyrob]

I personally know one of the local heavy recovery contractors, and he has a lot of bad things to say about the way these things are handled. Some of it may be sour grapes after he lost the TS contract a year or two ago, but he has been saying similar things since before then. He still has more than enough work though!

My understanding was that the A82 was cleared by contractors called in by the AA on behalf of TS, the coach on the B8004 was recovered by a different contractor, who was called in by Stagecoach themselves.

[novaecosse]

Who has heavy recovery capability in the Fort William area nowadays?
Used to be Chisholms (formerly G Mutch), are they still in the game?

In the Perth area it's now Perthshire Recovery.

[Glen]

I don't know what the AA have to do with anything, they don't have any recovery vehicles themselves in the area and they certainly don't do heavy recovery, nor are they the police's appointed contractor.
Chisholms are the company the police will use if they have to organise recovery themselves, but they will allow vehicle owners to arrange their own recovery first using their own choice of company, since police arranged recovery will usually work out more expensive - and that could mean Sheriffmill Motors coming fr Elgin if that is who haulier or bus company prefers to use.

[J--M--B]

I don't know what the AA have to do with anything, they don't have any recovery vehicles themselves in the area and they certainly don't do heavy recovery, nor are they the police's appointed contractor.
Chisholms are the company the police will use if they have to organise recovery themselves, but they will allow vehicle owners to arrange their own recovery first using their own choice of company, since police arranged recovery will usually work out more expensive - and that could mean Sheriffmill Motors coming fr Elgin if that is who haulier or bus company prefers to use.

I am sure the AA was mentioned in a previous newspaper report but could be wrong. I presume they just take over management of the callout rather than send a man in a little yellow van. It fits with the description of a "venture capitalist company".

The reports said there is a further meeting shortly.

[J--M--B]

Noticed this on For Argyll today

Progress on addressing A82 Pulpit Rock problems

Posted on January 29, 2013 by newsroom

Transport Scotland has just announced that it intends to award a £9.2 million contract to McLaughlin & Harvey Ltd in respect of the overdue address to A82 Pulpit Rock bottleneck.

.......

[wrinkly]

Took ages to load for me. Here's the press release on Transport Scotland.

Up to 14 weeks closure from 1 Oct. Probably privately planning to reopen by Christmas.

[wrinkly]

For items related to the A82 the choice seems to be between "A82: Pulpit Rock Lights Gone!", "A82 plans could lead to more accidents" and this one, "A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?".

One of those is not strictly relevant and the other two are a bit downbeat, but this one is more recently used than the "more accidents" one, so I'll go for this.

The contract has been awarded for the Crianlarich bypass.

Press release

[OLD GIT]

The comments up to now cover the section up to Crainlarech. From my many years of driving the following section ( approx 47 years) from crainlarech to balachulish ( actually Fort William -Glasgow), one thing stands out in summer -the hordes of drivers with southern plates that simply can't /won't leave a decent distance between vehicles ( for those wanting to overtake in safety) and driving at a speed not commensurate with the road standard . INpassing years I note that the vast majority can't handle any more than a gentle curve without braking from 40 in curves where the safe speed is a lot more. Attempt to pass them on this sort of well sighted curve and you get closing up bunching to try and prevent it or a lot of noise .Perhaps on this section we need less of the SCP chappie and more of ye ancient H'eiland bobby pulling up those who can't drive to the conditions and sending them on a courtous driving course. I take my hat off to the City Link bus drivers who do the glasgow -Fort William run several times a day . I can pass one of these and keep in front, ut as an experienced A82 driver ,even for me it's hard .

[haggishunter]

Hello from a fairly long term on and off lurker.. I was prompted to register partly in order to post by a combination of Oldgit's post and this evening's journey up the A82 to Inverness, and my previous journey a few days earlier down the A82!

Perhaps the most 'interesting' part of the return journey was this evening, just South of Urquhart Castle, on a serious of double bends with poor visibility, coming round one corner in fading light to find a car (with no lights on) doing a 3-point turn!

On the way down the other day I came across a 'Police Accident' sign coming through Invergarry, to see two cars - full head on smash, engines intertwined on the Southbound lane. Looked very much like the Northbound car was driving North on the Southbound lane, but something similar to my experience tonight could have had a similar consequence.

Specifically on the point in the previous post regarding overtaking, I witnessed a classic example of it tonight. Coming through Drumnadrochit a couple of cars joined the A82 in front of me on the way through. As those who know the road will know, a short distance on the way to Inverness there is a decent straight, had there not been oncoming traffic I'd have probably overtaken them as they were sitting around 50mph. As I was in no rush and near the end of my journey, after that I was content to just sit behind them, they were keeping a reasonable distance apart as well.

A mile or so further along a car came up behind me quite quickly, as I was happy to keep trundling along I dropped back a bit ahead of a possible overtaking spot and the car duly passed me into the space in front. Watching it try to overtake the next car up the road was distinctly unnerving. The 2nd car in now a 4 car line, started taking wide lines across the centre line to block several possible overtakes, eventually when the car in front of me went for the overtake, the 2nd car in the line closed the gap on the 1st car (as Old Git mentions - plenty of noise and as it was getting dark flashing lights...), the car overtaking continued to go to pass both cars and looked as if it couldn't accelerate any faster (or wasn't), it was peerlessly close to a bend when it pulled back in and by the grace of God nothing appeared the other direction.

Given the discussions there's been in various places about the role of reckless overtaking in causing accidents with regards to the debate over the proposed A9 average speed cameras, this evening's unfolding events in front of me again made me wonder how many 'reckless' overtakes are caused not by (or just by) the individual overtaking, but the dangerous and completely inconsiderate response from those being overtaken? Preventing or making overtaking difficult should be considered as bad as reckless overtaking imo.

[Haydn1971]

I've plenty of experience of dimwits on the Scottish network preventing a safe overtake - many people want to travel at lower speeds, I'm happy with that, but what infuriates me most are the people that prevent the rapid progress of others by riding the centre line, not leaving a good gap between them and a slower vehicle in front and perhaps most dangerously, closing the gap to the vehicle in front when someone is overtaking with a "look at this idiot" look on their face when you have either had to drop in behind or reopen the gap you where aiming for.

The A82, like many Highland trunk roads is an amazing drive when you get a good run, but damn frustrating when having to deal with the muppets.

[J--M--B]

I've plenty of experience of dimwits on the Scottish network preventing a safe overtake - many people want to travel at lower speeds, I'm happy with that, but what infuriates me most are the people that prevent the rapid progress of others by riding the centre line, not leaving a good gap between them and a slower vehicle in front and perhaps most dangerously, closing the gap to the vehicle in front when someone is overtaking with a "look at this idiot" look on their face when you have either had to drop in behind or reopen the gap you where aiming for.

The A82, like many Highland trunk roads is an amazing drive when you get a good run, but damn frustrating when having to deal with the muppets.

I think aggressive driving happens everywhere and both parties can be guilty. I have had occasions when waiting to overtake someone and waited because I knew there was a good straight section a short distance ahead. As I go around the last bend before the straight I have found a member of the Must Be In Front club behind me has pulled out to overtake early with the sole purpose of blocking my overtaking. I nearly ran one off the road because I was concentrating hard on the road ahead and never thought anyone would be stupid enough to pull out on a blind bend with double white lines.

By the way, the LN has this article this week on the 'temporary' traffic lights at Glen Gloy.

Why are we waiting for A82 repairs?