A9 dualling

[jnty]

The chances of any of these facilities appearing in dunkled are between zero and none, the whole reason the pass of birnham has been so difficult to proceed is due to the constraints of the site.

This is also the 1 unattended gulf petrol station which can't run 24hrs due to locals.

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Yep. There's also a relatively new 24h Gulf petrol station at Taste Perthshire, visible from and directly served by a LILO from the northbound carriageway (and slightly less directly served from the southbound carriageway.) It is, in my experience, reasonably priced and totally empty.

[wrinkly]

Press release

https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/a9- ... -the-road/

Communities are invited to view plans for completing the dualling of the A9 between Perth and Inverness at venues along the corridor over the coming weeks.

Transport Scotland officials will be on hand at drop in exhibitions which will be held at venues in Inverness, Aviemore, Dalwhinnie, Pitlochry and Perth between 14-29 February.

Gemma Patterson, Transport Scotland’s Head of A9 Dualling Delivery, said:

“We are looking forward to meeting with communities along the corridor and answering any questions they may have on the delivery plan that the Cabinet Secretary announced in Parliament just before Christmas.

“We’re keen to maintain regular and open dialogue and continue relationships developed with the communities and businesses as delivery of A9 Dualling progresses in the years ahead.

“We look forward to welcoming people to the drop-in exhibitions.”

The drop-in sessions will be held between 1pm and 7pm at the following venues:

Wednesday 14 February - Kingsmills Hotel, Culcabock Road, Inverness
Wednesday 21 February - MacDonald Aviemore Resort, Aviemore
Thursday 22 February - Dalwhinnie Village Hall,
Wednesday 28 February - Pitlochry Festival Theatre, Port-Na-Craig, Pitlochry
Thursday 29 February - Dewars Centre, Glover Street, Perth

[Starling]

The lack of services on the A9 is a problem, forcing people into the towns and villages next to the A9 isn't always practical.

A couple of years ago I was driving on the A9 and feeling quite tired and was desperate for a coffee, I went into Aviemore to try and find a coffee but all the cafes were closed, this was about 6pm. After a very long search I finally managed to get a coffee from one of these self-service Costa machines in one of the supermarkets, I don't like using these machines because they're usually filthy but I was desperate. This was during the summer and traffic was quite heavy in Aviemore, all in all the diversion to find a coffee added about an hour onto my journey, not very practical.

The lack of readily available caffeinated drinks on the A9 is probably a safety issue. Tired drivers can't easily find them in a lot of places. A lot of cafes are only open from 10am to 3pm so if you need a coffee outside of these times you have a problem.

[Ruperts Trooper]

The lack of services on the A9 is a problem, forcing people into the towns and villages next to the A9 isn't always practical.

A couple of years ago I was driving on the A9 and feeling quite tired and was desperate for a coffee, I went into Aviemore to try and find a coffee but all the cafes were closed, this was about 6pm. After a very long search I finally managed to get a coffee from one of these self-service Costa machines in one of the supermarkets, I don't like using these machines because they're usually filthy but I was desperate. This was during the summer and traffic was quite heavy in Aviemore, all in all the diversion to find a coffee added about an hour onto my journey, not very practical.

The lack of readily available caffeinated drinks on the A9 is probably a safety issue. Tired drivers can't easily find them in a lot of places. A lot of cafes are only open from 10am to 3pm so if you need a coffee outside of these times you have a problem.

Even the one Rest Area at Ralia is only open 9am-6pm - I just take a flask of coffee.

[Herned]

The lack of readily available caffeinated drinks on the A9 is probably a safety issue. Tired drivers can't easily find them in a lot of places. A lot of cafes are only open from 10am to 3pm so if you need a coffee outside of these times you have a problem.

I would suggest if you are relying on caffeine to drive safely you shouldn't be driving at all

[Chris5156]

The lack of services on the A9 is a problem, forcing people into the towns and villages next to the A9 isn't always practical.

I thought the lack of services was deliberate, and was a result of business owners protesting in the 1970s when the various bypasses were built. They claimed they would lose all their passing trade, and successfully got the new road to have no services so that people would have to go into the towns and villages instead.

I think this was also the catalyst for the “bypassed town” direction sign, showing a loop through a place and back out, which was intended to show that you could go into a bypassed place for food or other amenities and rejoin afterwards.

[FtoE]

There were signs too: “A9 No Roadside Services”

[cb a1]

The lack of services on the A9 is a problem, forcing people into the towns and villages next to the A9 isn't always practical.

I thought the lack of services was deliberate, and was a result of business owners protesting in the 1970s when the various bypasses were built. They claimed they would lose all their passing trade, and successfully got the new road to have no services so that people would have to go into the towns and villages instead.

I can't remember the specific Scottish Planning Policy (SPP) or Policy Advice Note (PAN) that this was in, but this was withdrawn in 2005, so for the last 18+ years there's been no specific block on any services on the A9.

I expect the reality is that it's just not economically viable for 24/7 services.

Just found this story from 2003

Planning committee members voted 14 to 12 to change the policy, which was introduced by the authority and the Scottish Office to protect communities by-passed when the road was upgraded in the 1970s.

The decision follows increased pressure from the Road Haulage Association, motoring organisations and the police, which believe the lack of service stations means tired motorists are not taking a break.

A report commissioned by the council estimates that scrapping the policy would cost villages such as Dalwhinnie, Carrbridge and Aviemore £2.2 million a year in lost business and threaten 49 jobs. But this would be offset by new turnover of £3.1 million at the services and 53 new jobs.

The report found that only eight per cent of motorists who use the popular tourist route each year use facilities in the bypassed areas. They estimate that up to 20 per cent of accidents are caused by driver fatigue.

They recommended a partial relaxation of the current ban to allow pull-ins offering toilets and basic refreshments. But councillors voted to lift the ban completely, arguing that existing facilities are often seasonal and that the policy is outdated.

Councillor Jimmy Macdonald said: "I am sure that, like the majority of drivers, I have carried on, even when I am tired, rather than go miles off the road through a village where I can't be sure of finding anything open.

We have been talking about this for years. I think it is in the interests of road safety and of tourism to provide facilities."

Strong opposition has come from businesses in Badenoch and Strathspey, and Aviemore councillor Basil Dunlop pledged to try and overturn the decision later this month. He said: "It will threaten the viability of petrol stations in the villages, which will be left with nothing."

I guess £3.1 million p.a. in 2005 values and prices was still not enough to make for a viable business.

[rileyrob]

There are / have been proposals to build a complex at Tomatin which, from what I remember, is halfway between a normal services and a House of Bruar type stop. As far as I know no work has taken place though.
It is surprising, to some extent, that nothing has been built. When you look at the number of businesses primarily serving the travelling public in Tyndrum on the quieter A82, you would have thought that something else (in addition to Bruar) on the A9 between Ballinluig Services and Ralia / the Newtonmore Truck Stop could be profitable. And between Aviemore and Inverness for that matter.
Aviemore does have a good range of cafes, pubs, a Tesco, Co-op and BP/M&S site, so caffeine addicts should be able to find a variety of places selling coffee at 6pm. Equally, it is only ~35 minutes to Inverness if heading north.

[IanRB]

There are / have been proposals to build a complex at Tomatin which, from what I remember, is halfway between a normal services and a House of Bruar type stop. As far as I know no work has taken place though.
It is surprising, to some extent, that nothing has been built. When you look at the number of businesses primarily serving the travelling public in Tyndrum on the quieter A82, you would have thought that something else (in addition to Bruar) on the A9 between Ballinluig Services and Ralia / the Newtonmore Truck Stop could be profitable. And between Aviemore and Inverness for that matter.
Aviemore does have a good range of cafes, pubs, a Tesco, Co-op and BP/M&S site, so caffeine addicts should be able to find a variety of places selling coffee at 6pm. Equally, it is only ~35 minutes to Inverness if heading north.

There was a Little Chef there for many years, but it closed maybe 25 years ago. The fact it closed & was not replaced suggests it was not economically viable.

[Dougman]

Don't know if this has been covered before, but on my way up the A9 yesterday I notice that the 50mph limit signs for trucks now don't have a red ring and just say 'Max speed 50 mph' in plain text. My first thought that this must be due to the increasingly stupid automation of driving and the cars 'seeing' that as the limit and putting a warning on the dash?

[TomJ]

Don't know if this has been covered before, but on my way up the A9 yesterday I notice that the 50mph limit signs for trucks now don't have a red ring and just say 'Max speed 50 mph' in plain text. My first thought that this must be due to the increasingly stupid automation of driving and the cars 'seeing' that as the limit and putting a warning on the dash?

That's exactly it.

It's also no longer referred to as a "Trial Limit".

[Chris Bertram]

It's also the case that Police Scotland, AFAIK, adhere to the limit+10%+2 threshold for prosecution. For a 50 limit this is 57mph, while trucks are speed limited to 56mph so in theory should never exceed their limit on A9 (and any derestricted road in E&W).

[KeithW]

There was a Little Chef there for many years, but it closed maybe 25 years ago. The fact it closed & was not replaced suggests it was not economically viable.

Little Chef no longer exists anywhere, they had been in decline for a long time dropping from 239 outlets to 41 , Euro Garages bought some of them and the rest closed in over a decade ago.

As for services those at Ballinluig was open last time I drove up there as was North Gateway cafe but only 9 to 5. The garage at Blair Atholl is open 24/7 I believe and there are local services in Aviemore

Just north of Perth there is Taste Perthshire. The problem I have is the signage, where it exists at all its minimal, here is the example at Bankfoot.
https://www.google.com/maps/@56.4884805 ... &entry=ttu

This is typical I am afraid where they exist at all ! You always have to rely on Google Maps to get a clue before that you had to trek through the bypassed towns in the hope of finding something. Dalwhinnie is another example, you have to have taken the exit and driven a fair way before you see the sign that tells you you can buy fuel !

My tip is to carry a picnic and do your planning for essential services using this site.
https://www.toiletmap.org.uk/

or the toilet finder and findlocal apps on smartphones.
https://findlocalapp.co.uk/

[Bryn666]

Don't know if this has been covered before, but on my way up the A9 yesterday I notice that the 50mph limit signs for trucks now don't have a red ring and just say 'Max speed 50 mph' in plain text. My first thought that this must be due to the increasingly stupid automation of driving and the cars 'seeing' that as the limit and putting a warning on the dash?

That's exactly it.

It's also no longer referred to as a "Trial Limit".

Another reason why such AI should not be lauded as "the future" by the techbro fraternity. Driving is a human skill, and people trying to say it isn't clearly don't comprehend the task at hand. We already have vehicles people don't need to control themselves, it's called public transport.

[Dougman]

Don't know if this has been covered before, but on my way up the A9 yesterday I notice that the 50mph limit signs for trucks now don't have a red ring and just say 'Max speed 50 mph' in plain text. My first thought that this must be due to the increasingly stupid automation of driving and the cars 'seeing' that as the limit and putting a warning on the dash?

That's exactly it.

It's also no longer referred to as a "Trial Limit".

Good point, I didn't notice that 'trial' had disappeared.

[Nwallace]

A car reading a sign and showing it to the driver and setting the speed limiter to it is not AI.

There is no "intelligence" involved at all it is simply computer vision feeding a series of events.

If it was AI it would be able to learn that the truck symbol means it does not apply by drivers mostly override the limiter and there being another sign that applies to the vehicle, it would also be able to read and understand the highway code and apply it.
But since tech bros seem to think you can train ai on average humans its got absolutely no place in a system where rigid rules apply, and the only remaining problem is the trolley. I.e. there's something on the road, hit it or something else.

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[wrinkly]

A car reading a sign and showing it to the driver and setting the speed limiter to it is not AI.

There is no "intelligence" involved at all it is simply computer vision feeding a series of events.

Not that many years ago, being able to read text in an image was definitely regarded as AI.

[jnty]

A car reading a sign and showing it to the driver and setting the speed limiter to it is not AI.

There is no "intelligence" involved at all it is simply computer vision feeding a series of events.

Not that many years ago, being able to read text in an image was definitely regarded as AI.

There's no "years ago" about it - computer vision is a branch of AI. The software which reads speed limits will - in a very broad sense - use many of the same underlying techniques that ChatGPT or any of the other zeitgeisty AI tools use.

[Ruperts Trooper]

It's also the case that Police Scotland, AFAIK, adhere to the limit+10%+2 threshold for prosecution. For a 50 limit this is 57mph, while trucks are speed limited to 56mph so in theory should never exceed their limit on A9 (and any derestricted road in E&W).

Cruising at 50 mpg (GPS not speedo) with my caravan on the A9, the towing limit, does seem to incur the wrath of truck drivers.

There may be some (very) old trucks which were never legally required to have limiters fitted - and more recent trucks in the 3501-7500 kg range where the limiter requirement was added much later - plus those who've fiddled with the existing limiter, although these seem to frequent the A75 from the Stranraer ferrys.