A9 dualling

[jnty]

Grade separated S2 would not have been politically acceptable in the slightest.




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Not as a solution for the whole route, certainly, but given that grade separated D2 doesn't seem to be have been politically acceptable either, quickly executed GS S2 at Dunkeld would have saved a lot of lives and disruption over the last decade.

[Bryn666]

Grade separated S2 would not have been politically acceptable in the slightest.




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Which is further evidence politicians have no place making transport decisions for their own pork barrel reasons. There is legitimately no reason why a "super 2" could not have solved 90% of the A9's problems.

[Nwallace]

It would be perceived publicly and by the media (This is the politically acceptable) as cost cutting, flawed etc etc.

Bank foot was always seen as a cheap cop out.

And just trawl the DCT archives (you can't very few get in to see them) for what was the view of the cheapouts on the A90.

First head on crash on any S2 left on the A9 and it's the projects failures fault, Including the recent 2 at Dunkeld.

D1 on the other hand like at bankfoot might just about pass muster for a while.

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[jackal]

It would be perceived publicly and by the media (This is the politically acceptable) as cost cutting, flawed etc etc.

Bank foot was always seen as a cheap cop out.

And just trawl the DCT archives (you can't very few get in to see them) for what was the view of the cheapouts on the A90.

First head on crash on any S2 left on the A9 and it's the projects failures fault, Including the recent 2 at Dunkeld.

D1 on the other hand like at bankfoot might just about pass muster for a while.

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I think when people say GSed S2, they mean with a small amount of D1 at the junctions; or at least that's how the proposal would be interpreted by those that would actually have to design it.

The A68 at Dalkeith is GSed S2 and doesn't seem to have the problems you suggest.

At-grade D2 like the A90 is the exact opposite to GSed S2, so hardly counts against the latter.

[Truvelo]

The problem with single carriageway GSJ's in this country is the entry slips have to end at a give way line or there has to be two lanes in the direction of the merge for it to be free flowing. Obviously a free flowing merge where there is only one lane is frowned upon, presumably as there isn't another lane for vehicles to move over to.

Compare this to Spain which has built hundreds of single carriageway GSJ's over the last few decades and many have free flow merges that merge into a single lane. Do the accident statistics there prove they are a danger or is it just British drivers who don't know how to merge properly.

[Bryn666]

The problem with single carriageway GSJ's in this country is the entry slips have to end at a give way line or there has to be two lanes in the direction of the merge for it to be free flowing. Obviously a free flowing merge where there is only one lane is frowned upon, presumably as there isn't another lane for vehicles to move over to.

Compare this to Spain which has built hundreds of single carriageway GSJ's over the last few decades and many have free flow merges that merge into a single lane. Do the accident statistics there prove they are a danger or is it just British drivers who don't know how to merge properly.

Probably more likely our gold-plated DMRB nonsense more than anything.

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

The problem with single carriageway GSJ's in this country is the entry slips have to end at a give way line or there has to be two lanes in the direction of the merge for it to be free flowing. Obviously a free flowing merge where there is only one lane is frowned upon, presumably as there isn't another lane for vehicles to move over to.

Compare this to Spain which has built hundreds of single carriageway GSJ's over the last few decades and many have free flow merges that merge into a single lane. Do the accident statistics there prove they are a danger or is it just British drivers who don't know how to merge properly.

GSJs on Spanish single carriageways almost always have a slip lane to allow drivers to zipper merge properly, which almost every grade separated single carriageway in the UK lacks. I suppose that after the A77 fiasco, politicians and civil engineers alike gained an irrational fear of building wide single carriageways in rural areas despite the context, for example, if there were turning lanes to turn left or right at a crossroads. By extension, this applies to grade separated single carriageways. Then again, if you're building a grade separated single carriageway, then you might as well build a dual carriageway instead to avoid creating restraints to increasing traffic capacity on the road in the future.

[jnty]

I guess only refined central belt drivers are capable of safely negotiating D1 merges
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sop3BfZrEA72a17NA

[haggishunter]

There is legitimately no reason why a "super 2" could not have solved 90% of the A9's problems.

The Kingussie junction is a compact GSJ on single carriageway and has been since opening, it has a bad record with numerous crashes including head on smashes and fatalities.

There have been several similar wrong way fatal accidents on and immediately south of the Ralia Cafe A9 off slip too.

It would seem intuitive that a WS2+1 GSJ would be safer than S2 due to extra space giving more margin for error. But by that point surely the cost step to D2 is relatively modest ?

[haggishunter]

I guess only refined central belt drivers are capable of safely negotiating D1 merges
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sop3BfZrEA72a17NA

Refined is not a word I’d use to describe some of the driving I’ve seen at that merge and the last time I was there a few weeks back my language was even less refined when somebody in the centre merge lane instead swerved across the chevrons in front of me into the left lane gain !

[Truvelo]

There is legitimately no reason why a "super 2" could not have solved 90% of the A9's problems.

The Kingussie junction is a compact GSJ on single carriageway and has been since opening, it has a bad record with numerous crashes including head on smashes and fatalities.

Why is that? It's designed so there are no right turns on the A9.

[Summers-lad]

There is legitimately no reason why a "super 2" could not have solved 90% of the A9's problems.

The Kingussie junction is a compact GSJ on single carriageway and has been since opening, it has a bad record with numerous crashes including head on smashes and fatalities.

There have been several similar wrong way fatal accidents on and immediately south of the Ralia Cafe A9 off slip too.

It would seem intuitive that a WS2+1 GSJ would be safer than S2 due to extra space giving more margin for error. But by that point surely the cost step to D2 is relatively modest ?

I'm not aware of the Kingussie GSJ being an accident spot. Do you have stats? It's always seemed to me to be well designed and effective, and it avoids right turning. Ralia, on the other hand, not only has right turns but also poor visibility when coming out of the B9150.

[Nwallace]

Opinion piece in the P&J today

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/op ... t-opinion/

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[Nwallace]

In fact anyone not living in DCT land may do well to read their history of A9 posts

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/tag/a9-dualling/

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/tag/a9/

The political power of DCT is interesting, they're traditional conservatives publishing to a base readership covering the full range of Scottish politics, and pretty much everywhere north of the forth.

Its far to easy for outsiders to write them off as being little more than the east Fife mail.

They'll probably move onto what remain of the at grade junction on the A90 and then the A92 in Fife once their success on the A9 and A96 is seen.

Ultimately it's that power that saw the A90 in the carse of Gowrie fixed and pushed the councils to sort the A92 between Dundee and arbroath.



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[Summers-lad]

Opinion piece in the P&J today

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/op ... t-opinion/

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Leaving aside the many roads (e.g. A830, A832, A835) which have been upgraded from S1, the A9 (south of Dornoch) must be one of the most modern roads in the Highlands, so describing it as "antiquated" is a bit over the top. And I notice that the photo used to illustrate the article is north of Inverness, where dualling has never been proposed. So pretty poor journalism.

[Nwallace]

Poor or deliberate?
They're setting the conversation about the A9 and it's pretty well sold.

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[Big L]

Local press websites love a stock image. They have an article about the A9 and a picture of the A9 so the two go together.

Down here, literally every story involving any part of the midlands M6 gets the same stock picture of J10 on the Express and Star advertising-dressed-as-news website.

[Nwallace]

Image is of a road closure on a single carriageway and it's in the DCT archive, suits their agenda perfectly.

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[FtoE]

There needs to be a brave politician to stand up and say “No. This road does not ‘need’ to be dualled. Neither the traffic figures nor accident statistics warrant it”

The BCR had to be massaged to get it over 1 with some nebulous ‘removing driver frustration’ figures - I’m not sure how that was calculated and to my knowledge it has never been used before or since.

There are many other roads could do with the £3 Billion this will cost (or rather, would have cost 15 years ago - £5 billion now?) that are less fashionable and without the PR of this road.

There’s much talk of a ‘connected’ Scotland. Well let’s try to get some guaranteed journey times along the A75 and A85. Up & down the A7, A82 and A9 north of Inverness. How transformative it would be to the economies of communities served by these roads, just as rebuilding the A9 transformed the economy of the Inner Moray Firth.

[Nwallace]

That politician would die a murderer.

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