A1 Northumberland Dualling

[owen b]

The issue is not so traffic volumes but what happens when there is an HGV breakdown or an incident. With no hard shoulder passing is very difficult. The queues can become very long and even getting a recovery vehicle to the scene can be a challenge.

If that's the problem then surely widening the existing road to WS2 would be sufficient. My recollection is that most or all of Morpeth to Felton is wider than standard S2 already, so I presume that widening to WS2 would be a whole lot cheaper than full dualling.

I agree with NICK 647063 that the A66 (Scotch Corner to Penrith) is a much higher priority than the Northumberland stretch of the A1 for improving East of England (by which I mean North East, Yorkshire, East Midlands) links with Scotland.

The section between Morpeth and Felton is badly needed and is congested every day and well over capacity. Doing bit part upgrades is just a waste of money, just do the thing properly instead of messing about doing placemeal upgrades to then do it properly anyway. You'll just end up wasting money like what happened on the A9 at Bankfoot and doing it twice. It's only 7 miles, it's not like were talking about a 20 mile upgrade and they've already bought the land as far as I'm aware.

It shouldn't be an either or, the A1 and the A66 need doing and both have different reasons, it's nothing to do with Scottish traffic - it's more local traffic travelling to Alnwick and the Northumberland Coast mostly.

You'll note that I posted "If that's the problem" (ie. as Keith W suggested HGV breakdowns and incidents are the problem), then WS2 could be the answer. If on the other hand as you are arguing capacity and congestion is the problem, them WS2 may well not be the answer. The problem needs to be agreed before the solution can be identified. Either way, my view is that the A66 is higher priority than the A1, so if I had to choose I would improve the A66, but that doesn't mean that there aren't problems on both roads which need to be addressed.

[NICK 647063]

Sorry but this scheme needs cancelling, very rarely do we see delays on that section of the A1, currently the A66 is used from the A1(M) to cut across to the M6 and then up to Scotland, given that the much needed A66 dualling is likely to go ahead that route would become even more attractive, thus taking more traffic off the A1 north of Newcastle.

The A1 traffic volumes simply don’t warrant this improvement, the A64 scheme which is forever pushed back deals with a chronically congested section of road where many lives have been lost, a scheme like that should be taking the funding rather than the A1 scheme that isn’t required.

The issue is not so traffic volumes but what happens when there is an HGV breakdown or an incident. With no hard shoulder passing is very difficult. The queues can become very long and even getting a recovery vehicle to the scene can be a challenge.

So we build an expensive dual carriageway because we might have the odd breakdown? Surely a few extra lay-bys sort that…. 2 things should be the main priority when it comes to upgrades and that’s traffic volumes and accidents, the A1 North of Newcastle doesn’t have the flows simple.

The A66 should be priority, as I believe the A64 East of Hopgrove 28k flows and accidents, then you have the A1 Doncaster to M62 which must now be the worst remaining dual carriageway in the country accident and flow wise.

While it shouldn’t be either or, that’s sadly exactly what it is, how the A1 North of Newcastle can score as a higher priority nationally than the ever pushed back A1 North of Doncaster is beyond me.

[jackal]

The A1 Northumberland does indeed seem a strange priority compared to the A1 Doncaster or A64. It's kind of the English A9, with the A64 in the role of the A82, off to the side and forgotten.

That said, you can be sure they aren't delaying the A1 because they want to bump the A64 to the front of the queue. Nor are they redesigning it as WS2 or WS2+1, which would be a lot of disruption and expense for a marginal improvement. It's the current scheme or nothing. And it certainly is better than nothing.

[KeithW]

The A1 Northumberland does indeed seem a strange priority compared to the A1 Doncaster or A64. It's kind of the English A9, with the A64 in the role of the A82, off to the side and forgotten.

That said, you can be sure they aren't delaying the A1 because they want to bump the A64 to the front of the queue. Nor are they redesigning it as WS2 or WS2+1, which would be a lot of disruption and expense for a marginal improvement. It's the current scheme or nothing. And it certainly is better than nothing.

Not being on the DfT priority circulation list I cant say anything about the A1 north of Newcastle. The Doncaster Bypass and Redhouse to Darrington are on the list last I heard.
https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/ro ... tsheet.pdf

[jackal]

The A1 Northumberland does indeed seem a strange priority compared to the A1 Doncaster or A64. It's kind of the English A9, with the A64 in the role of the A82, off to the side and forgotten.

That said, you can be sure they aren't delaying the A1 because they want to bump the A64 to the front of the queue. Nor are they redesigning it as WS2 or WS2+1, which would be a lot of disruption and expense for a marginal improvement. It's the current scheme or nothing. And it certainly is better than nothing.

Not being on the DfT priority circulation list I cant say anything about the A1 north of Newcastle. The Doncaster Bypass and Redhouse to Darrington are on the list last I heard.
https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/ro ... tsheet.pdf

The A1 Northumberland is an RIS1 scheme that has gone through its DCO and is just waiting (and waiting...) for the SoS to sign off so construction can start. Doncaster to Darrington was an RIS3 pipeline scheme, now kicked to RIS4 (i.e., 2030-2035) at the earliest. So Northumberland is about a decade ahead in the queue.

[Berk]

…but only if funding and a guaranteed place in the building queue are found.

The new A460 hasn’t gotten off the grid yet, and neither has Stonehenge.

[KeithW]

The A1 Northumberland is an RIS1 scheme that has gone through its DCO and is just waiting (and waiting...) for the SoS to sign off so construction can start. Doncaster to Darrington was an RIS3 pipeline scheme, now kicked to RIS4 (i.e., 2030-2035) at the earliest. So Northumberland is about a decade ahead in the queue.

As I recall the Doncaster Bypass was originally part of RIS2 until it and Redhouse to Darrington were combined.

[jackal]

"A1 Northumberland dualling confirmed after three delays"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... 008089.amp

As the article mentions, the DCO is still not signed off. Still, the announcement indicates that money is now available. I assume that was the only reason why the scheme had been on ice as it's not particularly complex or controversial. Yesterday was the two-year anniversary of the Planning Inspectorate issuing its recommendation; such a delay in the SoS's decision is, I believe, unprecedented for a HE/NH scheme.

[Micro The Maniac]

So we build an expensive dual carriageway because we might have the odd breakdown? Surely a few extra lay-bys sort that….

See also the whole SMART motorway debate, and removing hard-shoulders..........

[Glenn A]

This project is needed as it fills in the missing link between Alnwick and Morpeth, but there is an alternative route to Edinburgh using the A697 and A68 that many driver use.

[KeithW]

The A1 Northumberland is an RIS1 scheme that has gone through its DCO and is just waiting (and waiting...) for the SoS to sign off so construction can start. Doncaster to Darrington was an RIS3 pipeline scheme, now kicked to RIS4 (i.e., 2030-2035) at the earliest. So Northumberland is about a decade ahead in the queue.

Indeed but that is Morpeth to Ellingham which is 25 miles BUT there is then another 25 miles to the Scottish Border and all it takes is a breakdown to cause chaos, north of Belford there is no satisfactory diversion route and nothing that is suitable for HGV's.

[KeithW]

This project is needed as it fills in the missing link between Alnwick and Morpeth, but there is an alternative route to Edinburgh using the A697 and A68 that many driver use.

Which doesnt help much once you are north of Alnwick.

[Paul7755]

The A1 Northumberland is an RIS1 scheme that has gone through its DCO and is just waiting (and waiting...) for the SoS to sign off so construction can start. Doncaster to Darrington was an RIS3 pipeline scheme, now kicked to RIS4 (i.e., 2030-2035) at the earliest. So Northumberland is about a decade ahead in the queue.

Indeed but that is Morpeth to Ellingham which is 25 miles BUT there is then another 25 miles to the Scottish Border and all it takes is a breakdown to cause chaos, north of Belford there is no satisfactory diversion route and nothing that is suitable for HGV's.

Morpeth to Ellingham centre to centre is about 25 miles. But about 12.5 miles of the A1 route between them is already dualled. The amount of work involved seems to be consistently exaggerated, I don’t really understand why.

[owen b]

The A1 Northumberland is an RIS1 scheme that has gone through its DCO and is just waiting (and waiting...) for the SoS to sign off so construction can start. Doncaster to Darrington was an RIS3 pipeline scheme, now kicked to RIS4 (i.e., 2030-2035) at the earliest. So Northumberland is about a decade ahead in the queue.

Indeed but that is Morpeth to Ellingham which is 25 miles BUT there is then another 25 miles to the Scottish Border and all it takes is a breakdown to cause chaos, north of Belford there is no satisfactory diversion route and nothing that is suitable for HGV's.

Morpeth to Ellingham centre to centre is about 25 miles. But about 12.5 miles of the A1 route between them is already dualled. The amount of work involved seems to be consistently exaggerated, I don’t really understand why.

I don't understand why Ellingham is referred to in the National Highways scheme description : https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-road ... -dualling/
The A1 is already dualled between North Charlton and Ellingham and without having looked at the documents in detail I'm not aware of improvements as part of the scheme on the North Charlton to Ellingham section.

[Glenn A]

This project is needed as it fills in the missing link between Alnwick and Morpeth, but there is an alternative route to Edinburgh using the A697 and A68 that many driver use.

Which doesnt help much once you are north of Alnwick.

Then there is the tourist traffic for Alnwick Castle, Holy Island and Bamburgh Castle in summer as well as tractors that can cause serious tailbacks.

[jabbaboy]

I don't understand why Ellingham is referred to in the National Highways scheme description : https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-road ... -dualling/
The A1 is already dualled between North Charlton and Ellingham and without having looked at the documents in detail I'm not aware of improvements as part of the scheme on the North Charlton to Ellingham section.

It looks better when they say there's now 25 mile of dual carriageway instead of 18 mile (or whatever the numbers are - can't remember). All political pretty much.

[Mark Hewitt]

Morpeth to Felton is often congested especially in the summer months, it's not uncommon to be doing 25mph for the entire 7 miles.

It just seems an unecessary gap in dualling especially when to the South its already dual to the A1(M) and to the North there is 11 miles of dualling past Alnwick. Getting the gap done unlocks the capacity and journey times of the entire 18 mile stretch.

Alnwick to Ellingham makes sense in that is it bridging another D2/S2 gap but the Ellingham D2 isn't long, just 1.5 miles, so it is a nice to have.

I do agree that further North to Berwick traffic levels don't warrant D2.

[Gav]

Thing is with the talk about traffic levels dont warrant the building of a DC...

its not as clear cut as that, traffic levels are not as simple. for one the natural move for Edinburgh would be down the A1 for the east ? But why do many not ? There is a lot of traffic that moves via the A74(M) down to the M6 and cuts across at the A66. just to avoid the A1. displaced traffic as they say.

No if that A1 was addressed and dueled then there would be a lot more traffic us it for the North east. The A1 was a hell of a road until the stretch between Newcastle and Leeds was turned to motorway. journey times are much much lower these days but the slog from Morpeth to Edinburgh is slow at the best of times.

[Mark Hewitt]

Thing is with the talk about traffic levels dont warrant the building of a DC...

its not as clear cut as that, traffic levels are not as simple. for one the natural move for Edinburgh would be down the A1 for the east ? But why do many not ? There is a lot of traffic that moves via the A74(M) down to the M6 and cuts across at the A66. just to avoid the A1. displaced traffic as they say.

No if that A1 was addressed and dueled then there would be a lot more traffic us it for the North east. The A1 was a hell of a road until the stretch between Newcastle and Leeds was turned to motorway. journey times are much much lower these days but the slog from Morpeth to Edinburgh is slow at the best of times.

I would guess by the way traffic levels drop off North of Alnwick that the majority of drivers using Morpeth-Felton aren't going to Edinburgh or even Scotland but to Alnwick and surrounding towns and villages in Northern Northumberland. If that would change if more of the A1 was dualled is anyone's guess.

[Hdeng16]

Thing is with the talk about traffic levels dont warrant the building of a DC...

its not as clear cut as that, traffic levels are not as simple. for one the natural move for Edinburgh would be down the A1 for the east ? But why do many not ? There is a lot of traffic that moves via the A74(M) down to the M6 and cuts across at the A66. just to avoid the A1. displaced traffic as they say.

No if that A1 was addressed and dueled then there would be a lot more traffic us it for the North east. The A1 was a hell of a road until the stretch between Newcastle and Leeds was turned to motorway. journey times are much much lower these days but the slog from Morpeth to Edinburgh is slow at the best of times.

I think it's more digital these days. If the sat nav says go this way, you go this way. We on this forum are a miniority. What would be interesting is if you could "edit" tomtom or google maps to replace the A1 with a dual carriageway - and then see which route it suggests over the A74(M) etc. Obviously with live traffic it becomes quite complicated having to invent the data for the upgraded road - but that's key to this for me. It's not opinion based routing any more, no one is looking for the dual carriageway up the east coast - it'll about whether the sat nav says the A1 becomes the de-facto route north or not.