A1 Northumberland Dualling

[Mark Hewitt]

Thing is with the talk about traffic levels dont warrant the building of a DC...

its not as clear cut as that, traffic levels are not as simple. for one the natural move for Edinburgh would be down the A1 for the east ? But why do many not ? There is a lot of traffic that moves via the A74(M) down to the M6 and cuts across at the A66. just to avoid the A1. displaced traffic as they say.

No if that A1 was addressed and dueled then there would be a lot more traffic us it for the North east. The A1 was a hell of a road until the stretch between Newcastle and Leeds was turned to motorway. journey times are much much lower these days but the slog from Morpeth to Edinburgh is slow at the best of times.

I think it's more digital these days. If the sat nav says go this way, you go this way. We on this forum are a miniority. What would be interesting is if you could "edit" tomtom or google maps to replace the A1 with a dual carriageway - and then see which route it suggests over the A74(M) etc. Obviously with live traffic it becomes quite complicated having to invent the data for the upgraded road - but that's key to this for me. It's not opinion based routing any more, no one is looking for the dual carriageway up the east coast - it'll about whether the sat nav says the A1 becomes the de-facto route north or not.

Even if Newcastle to Edinburgh was entirely dualled, the Newcastle/Gateshead western bypass, even despite the recent and still ongoing work, provides a significant bottleneck for long distance traffic as delays there can be considerable.

[orudge]

Even if Newcastle to Edinburgh was entirely dualled, the Newcastle/Gateshead western bypass, even despite the recent and still ongoing work, provides a significant bottleneck for long distance traffic as delays there can be considerable.

Likewise for traffic from north/west of Edinburgh, the Edinburgh City bypass can be awful if you catch it at the wrong time (as we discovered when heading down to Northumberland in the summer), whereas I've never really had quite the same issue with the M73/M74 (though the M80 can be bad).

I do think dualling the A1 completely would be beneficial overall, but probably not higher priority than many other routes.

[haggishunter]

From a North of Scotland perspective dualling the A66 would be much more beneficial and should be a much higher priority than the A1. The A66 upgraded would benefit a much wider area than the A1.

Indeed for Edinburgh area more 2+1 and bypasses on the A68 would win.

[owen b]

From a North of Scotland perspective dualling the A66 would be much more beneficial and should be a much higher priority than the A1. The A66 upgraded would benefit a much wider area than the A1.

Agreed. From the A720 / A702 junction to the A1(M) southbound at Scotch Corner, the A1 is only one mile shorter than A702 / A74(M) / M6 / A66. From the A9 / M90 roundabout at Perth to Scotch Corner, going via Edinburgh and the A1 is three miles further than A9 / M80 / M73 etc.

[KeithW]

From a North of Scotland perspective dualling the A66 would be much more beneficial and should be a much higher priority than the A1. The A66 upgraded would benefit a much wider area than the A1.

Indeed for Edinburgh area more 2+1 and bypasses on the A68 would win.

Its a good job that the A66 upgrade is on the list then

There are 2 objections on the DCO

1) the realignment of the de-trunked A66 closer to the new dual carriageway at Warcop. The Planning Inspectorate has said that the requests do not feature sufficient information in relation to the flood risk impacts to features of the River Eden Special Area of Conservation (SAC). The Environment Agency has also commented that both changes “potentially give rise to a risk of a new significant adverse effect because of changes to flood risk.”

2) The suggested realignment of the Warcop westbound junction would remove an attenuation pond, and does not suggest an alternative location elsewhere. This is crucial as this is an area of known flooding and sensitive environment.

The other 22 updates have been accepted

As for Edinburgh as has been said the major problem is the A720 which is why my route of choice to northern Scotland is A66/M6/A74(M)/M74/M80 and then either the M9/A9 to the north east or A85/A82 towards Fort William.

Gretna works if I am heading for Galloway or Ayrshire.

[wrinkly]

There are 2 objections on the DCO

1) the realignment of the de-trunked A66 closer to the new dual carriageway at Warcop. The Planning Inspectorate has said that the requests do not feature sufficient information in relation to the flood risk impacts to features of the River Eden Special Area of Conservation (SAC). The Environment Agency has also commented that both changes “potentially give rise to a risk of a new significant adverse effect because of changes to flood risk.”

2) The suggested realignment of the Warcop westbound junction would remove an attenuation pond, and does not suggest an alternative location elsewhere. This is crucial as this is an area of known flooding and sensitive environment.

The other 22 updates have been accepted

May I ask where you are getting this information about "2 objections on the DCO" and "the other 22 updates"? In a quick scan of the Planning Inspectorate's page on the scheme I haven't found anything resembling these statements. There is an enormous amount of stuff there.

Furthermore I didn't think that, once the formal examination of a scheme has started, either the Planning Inspectorate, the SoS or National Highways were in the habit of issuing running commentaries on how many objections have been dealt with before the final decision is announced.

[KeithW]

May I ask where you are getting this information about "2 objections on the DCO" and "the other 22 updates"? In a quick scan of the Planning Inspectorate's page on the scheme I haven't found anything resembling these statements. There is an enormous amount of stuff there.

Furthermore I didn't think that, once the formal examination of a scheme has started, either the Planning Inspectorate, the SoS or National Highways were in the habit of issuing running commentaries on how many objections have been dealt with before the final decision is announced.

The New Civil Engineer website.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 1-04-2023/

[jabbaboy]

Surely the Scotland <> England traffic is completely irrelevant here.

It's all good saying dual the A66 instead but I wouldn't be surprised if 95% of the traffic is going nowhere near Edinburgh and is local traffic, and I can't imagine the vast majority of the A66 traffic is going anywhere near Edinburgh / Glasgow either considering there's only 35k vehicles on the M74 just South of Abingdon.

Dualling the A1, is about local traffic travelling to Alnwick and Berwick and holiday traffic travelling to places like Seahouses which all turn off at the B6367, beyond that the traffic levels drop considerably.

Spending money on the likes of the A68 won't do no difference at all as it goes absolutely no-where where people commute which is why there's 3.5k vehicles a day around Carter Bar.

[wrinkly]

May I ask where you are getting this information about "2 objections on the DCO" and "the other 22 updates"? In a quick scan of the Planning Inspectorate's page on the scheme I haven't found anything resembling these statements. There is an enormous amount of stuff there.

Furthermore I didn't think that, once the formal examination of a scheme has started, either the Planning Inspectorate, the SoS or National Highways were in the habit of issuing running commentaries on how many objections have been dealt with before the final decision is announced.

The New Civil Engineer website.
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest ... 1-04-2023/

Thanks, now I understand.

Acceptance is not the same as approval. Acceptance means acceptance for examination. It means "we recognise that you have provided enough detail about this proposal that we can examine it and consult those who need to be consulted about it."

Normally acceptance comes before the examination phase. For the A66 scheme the original acceptance for examination was in July 2022. The examination stage lasted from Nov 2022 to May 2023.

In January 2023, during the examination stage, NH announced a series of changes to the plans, said to be in response to public comments, and applied for them to be included in the examination. As far as I know it's very unusual for such a large batch of changes to be proposed by the promoter at that stage, but this is an unusually large project to be considered all at once.

The NCE article dates from April and says that the Planning Inspectorate agreed to include all but two of the changes in the examination. This says nothing about whether it thinks them a good idea.

Presumably the hurdle for accepting a change to the plans is higher than for accepting the original proposal as it must not materially enlarge the scope of the proposal.

The examination phase ended in May. The report to the Minister was submitted in August. The minister has until November to decide (or to give himself an extension if it goes like the A1 in Northumberland).

There are many objections to the overall scheme and it remains to be seen how many of the objectors think the accepted changes resolve their objections, or worsen them, or are irrelevant to them.

I've seen a couple of recent news items about the horse fair site, such as this:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/r ... r-AA1hBNz9

[jackal]

Surely the Scotland <> England traffic is completely irrelevant here.

Apparently 15% of cross border HGVs use the A1: https://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk ... rt-4395354 That's fairly significant and certainly should factor into the equation.

[Mark Hewitt]

Surely the Scotland <> England traffic is completely irrelevant here.

Apparently 15% of cross border HGVs use the A1: https://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk ... rt-4395354 That's fairly significant and certainly should factor into the equation.

I think everyone is sick of decades of them discussing options.

[KeithW]

I think everyone is sick of decades of them discussing options.

Indeed and the current proposal is of much better quality than the previous piecemeal schemes.

[andypins]

Clearly there are other roads that need improvements as well but a lot of work , consultation, money and planning has gone into this proposal linking existing dual carriageway and making that part of the road safer.
So many promises over the years - a lot of politics!

[Glenn A]

Clearly there are other roads that need improvements as well but a lot of work , consultation, money and planning has gone into this proposal linking existing dual carriageway and making that part of the road safer.
So many promises over the years - a lot of politics!

The Morpeth- Alnwick section should be D2 as this is like a missing link and does get busy in summer with tourist traffic visiting Alnwick Castle and the Northumberland coast, as well as tractors causing long tailbacks. Other sections maybe are not as important at the moment, but ideally there should eventually be a full D2 to the Scottish border.

[nowster]

My memory of the area is a particular adjustment of a few of the signs, one of which seems to have disappeared this summer, but this one, being a little more subtle, may have been overlooked.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZzAUnvusYUw8yThVA