A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

[SouthWest Philip]

Question: What's the most recent motorway to open in the UK, one with an actual "M" number, not just an A-Road under motorway regulations? I think it is the M74 towards Glasgow (2011) but I could be wrong.

The M90 Queensferry Crossing is more recent, but even that has a stupid gap in the motorway status.

[c2R]

Well, yeah, the A14(not-quite-M) is the one I was thinking of. It was also needed for capacity reasons: the A14 past Cambridge was desperately over-stretched at peak times.

Question: What's the most recent motorway to open in the UK, one with an actual "M" number, not just an A-Road under motorway regulations? I think it is the M74 towards Glasgow (2011) but I could be wrong.

The most recent stretch of Mx numbered motorway to be opened are the M11 J7A sliproads, which opened this year.
Not counting slip roads (which are motorways with Mx numbering), the M90 is the most recent M road motorway.
The most recent proper motorway (Ax(M) or Mx) is the the A1(M) at Catterick in 2018.
The most recent non motorway special road is the A90 AWPR
The most recent A road with motorway like restrictions is the A14 in 2019.
The most recent HQDC without motorway like restrictions is the A9 at Luncarty, last year.

[spacetweek]

Hi all. Please bear with me as I don't want to have to read the last few years of this very busy thread.

Is the new A14 not a motorway because they needed to open it as non-motorway temporarily and then subsequently decided that it would cost too much to replace the signs? Plus a bit of the old motorways-are-bad-these-days stuff thrown in?

[c2R]

Hi all. Please bear with me as I don't want to have to read the last few years of this very busy thread.

Is the new A14 not a motorway because they needed to open it as non-motorway temporarily and then subsequently decided that it would cost too much to replace the signs? Plus a bit of the old motorways-are-bad-these-days stuff thrown in?

It's more complicated than that. They initially (in the most recent iteration of the scheme) decided that it couldn't be a motorway, citing higher cost of the scheme as a reason and a discontinuous standard rote for the A14 as another. Then, smart motorways came along and magically it was possible to have a motorway without a hard shoulder. Then, the expressway concept was thought up whereby modern dual carriageways could be upgraded to Ax(M) over time. So they then announced that it would be motorway. But then they ran out of parliamentary time and by that point had been signed up everywhere. And it just sort of never happened. TROs were legislated for instead (not sure how this uses less time than a special roads order and that's how we ended up where we are. Even technical and protect management staff from the project didn't really have any answers as to why it was never made a motorway, all commenting that it probably should be!

[KeithW]

Hi all. Please bear with me as I don't want to have to read the last few years of this very busy thread.

Is the new A14 not a motorway because they needed to open it as non-motorway temporarily and then subsequently decided that it would cost too much to replace the signs? Plus a bit of the old motorways-are-bad-these-days stuff thrown in?

The main issue is simple, the A14 is 127 miles long and the only section that meets motorway standards of construction is 14 miles long, the coast and faff is just not worth it when TRO's can achieve the same thing. This is NOT something new. The same applies to the 8 miles of A19 between the A174 and Wolviston where pedestrians and cyclists are excluded. The motorway issue was a last minute idea announced by Highways England and I suggest it just hadn't been thought through and not for the first time I fear.

Making the new section of the A14 a motorway requires parliamentary time and since we are talking 2019/2020 the government was preoccupied with BREXIT. Huge amounts of parliamentary time was occupied by passing enabling legislation. I can envisage the reaction of the whips in parliament to the proposal, I doubt it included much parliamentary language.

[fras]

Unless a TRO is made, these very high quality dual carriageway, grade-separated non-motorway roads are open to all classes of traffic. If one makes a road a motorway, there is usually substantial additional cost in making provision for barred traffic. This can sometimes be a quite long road where no alternatives exist. Also, where the land of a farm is crossed, there has to be a bridge to allow farm machinery to get around the farm, you can't just have gates off the new road.

[Chris56000]

The new A30 Carland X–Chiverton X will also include a slow traffic/NMU ban in it's development consent order, so I presume signage similar to those on the A14 and A90 will also appear on the entry slip roads for this scheme as well!

However shouldn't there be signs cancelling these regulations at the ends of the restricted lengths on the main carriageways and the exit slip roads at intermediate junctions?

Neither the A14, the A90 nor the A720 have them, altho' the special road sections of the A1 in East Lothian and the A55 North Wales Expressway do!

What's wrong with a sign showing the roundels in grey with the closely–spaced black diagonal lines forming the cancellation bar like you see at the end of HGV bans and Pedestrian Zones across the roundels, with "END OF RESTRICTIONS" underneath?

(Bryn, could you sketch a possible design, then I can submit it to the DfT etc.?)

Chris Williams

[c2R]

Unless a TRO is made, these very high quality dual carriageway, grade-separated non-motorway roads are open to all classes of traffic. If one makes a road a motorway, there is usually substantial additional cost in making provision for barred traffic. This can sometimes be a quite long road where no alternatives exist. Also, where the land of a farm is crossed, there has to be a bridge to allow farm machinery to get around the farm, you can't just have gates off the new road.

Yes, but the new A14 does have alternatives and does have TROs which ban the majority of traffic also banned on motorways, and isn't constructed with field accesses etc

[fras]

Unless a TRO is made, these very high quality dual carriageway, grade-separated non-motorway roads are open to all classes of traffic. If one makes a road a motorway, there is usually substantial additional cost in making provision for barred traffic. This can sometimes be a quite long road where no alternatives exist. Also, where the land of a farm is crossed, there has to be a bridge to allow farm machinery to get around the farm, you can't just have gates off the new road.

Yes, but the new A14 does have alternatives and does have TROs which ban the majority of traffic also banned on motorways, and isn't constructed with field accesses etc

Pleased to hear it ! (not that I go that way very often)

[RichardA35]

IIRC there were objections from farming communities/contractors over the proposals that HE didn't want to challenge.

[ManomayLR]

What's wrong with a sign showing the roundels in grey with the closely–spaced black diagonal lines forming the cancellation bar like you see at the end of HGV bans and Pedestrian Zones across the roundels, with "END OF RESTRICTIONS" underneath?

(Bryn, could you sketch a possible design, then I can submit it to the DfT etc.?)

Chris Williams

It’s as confusing as the start of restrictions sign!

If they don’t want to do the sensible thing, and just go for motorway regulations, maybe it’s worth designing another type of sign to cover non-special roads with TROs that effectively amount to motorway regulations.

Yes, we’d have two types of motorway, but that’s the case in many countries for example Spain with the autopista and autovía.

[spacetweek]

So long as the two types would be coloured blue on maps, I'd be happy

[c2R]

So long as the two types would be coloured blue on maps, I'd be happy

The thing that annoys me most is the lower van speed limit. I can see how that's necessary on a substandard 60s dual carriageway but it's absurd on the likes of the new sections of a14

[KeithW]

The thing that annoys me most is the lower van speed limit. I can see how that's necessary on a substandard 60s dual carriageway but it's absurd on the likes of the new sections of a14

The problem is of course that is a short section and the next heading west is a rather poor standard having been dualled decades ago. Heading east is of course the overloaded and congested Cambridge Northern bypass which opened over 40 years ago.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.35200 ... 8192?hl=en

This is the problem with most D2 Roads, thy are of highly variable standard. The A1 for example for example varies between this

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.13580 ... 8192?hl=en

and this in just a few miles.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.24922 ... 8192?hl=en

See also Redhouse to Darrington, Great Ponton and Elkesley.

[tom66]

In the US the solution to this problem has been to apply differing speed limits to trucks on some signs. It's not uncommon to see "SPEED LIMIT 65 - TRUCKS 55" for instance on some rural highways. Not sure why that solution hasn't been considered here, besides the trial 50 mph speed limit for HGVs on the A9(?) - which was an increase above the prior 40 mph legal limit - I can't think of any other instance of it.

[the cheesecake man]

In the US the solution to this problem has been to apply differing speed limits to trucks on some signs. It's not uncommon to see "SPEED LIMIT 65 - TRUCKS 55" for instance on some rural highways. Not sure why that solution hasn't been considered here,...

We do it routinely on railways so I don't see why it can't be done on roads as well.

[doebag]

In the US the solution to this problem has been to apply differing speed limits to trucks on some signs. It's not uncommon to see "SPEED LIMIT 65 - TRUCKS 55" for instance on some rural highways. Not sure why that solution hasn't been considered here, besides the trial 50 mph speed limit for HGVs on the A9(?) - which was an increase above the prior 40 mph legal limit - I can't think of any other instance of it.

I thought that is why we have NSL and not 60 or 70.
NSL varies by a specific class of vehicle on a specific class of road. The driver should know what limits relates to their vehicle.

[tom66]

I thought that is why we have NSL and not 60 or 70.
NSL varies by a specific class of vehicle on a specific class of road. The driver should know what limits relates to their vehicle.

This discussion arises around the oddity that HQDC's that are effectively motorways from a design perspective (what is the difference in build standard of M6 vs A14 for instance? It's not hard shoulders as ALR is common on smart motorways...) yet the speed limits for vans/LGVs differ on these roads compared to motorways.

This would be resolved if these roads could be signed in such a way that low quality DC's (LQDC?) could have NSL (which would be adjusted to 70 for LGVs on dual carriageways) but then a separate LGV speed limit. Or there could be signage indicating vans may use motorway speed limits for HQDC sections. This is assuming the road is never made a motorway as these issues are resolved in that case.

This is all hypothetical of course, and I doubt it will ever happen, but a man can ponder.

[KeithW]

This discussion arises around the oddity that HQDC's that are effectively motorways from a design perspective (what is the difference in build standard of M6 vs A14 for instance? It's not hard shoulders as ALR is common on smart motorways...) yet the speed limits for vans/LGVs differ on these roads compared to motorways.

That depend on which bit of the A14 you are talking about. There are sections with flat junctions
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.35206 ... 6656?hl=en

Properties with direct access to the road
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.38136 ... 8192?hl=en

One thing is for certain , there is no way you could ban agricultural vehicles given the number of farms that are only accessible via the A14

[tom66]

That's absolutely true - but then you have sections like the Huntingdon bypass which is of very high standard and is *effectively* of motorway standard even if it is not legally a motorway. On those roads, it would be sensible to allow all vehicles to operate at motorway speeds, but it's currently legally impossible to allow this without making the road a motorway which creates other issues.