Uttoxeter GSJs

[jackal]

Just an update to say Project B (the GSJ east of Uttoxeter) did not make it into RIS2.

[GeorgeEvans]

Not at all surprised.

The good news is the new Walton-on-Trent river crossing will start in April for c12 months.

Hopefully they can then crack on with the A514 Derby to A38 scheme (in my life time?) taking the road from Cadley Hill roundabout - remember the miner's strike there - to Barton Turns.

[ManomayLR]

SMT / FORUM MODERATORS NOTICE:

Following a Post Report, posts about the A50 Southern Derby Integrated Transport Link has been split into another thread.

Virtual TOTSO time!

[GeorgeEvans]

Yesterday's Burton Mail (front page; can't find online article) carried an item saying the junction between the A50 and B5030 north of Uttoxeter will be rebuilt as a 'hamburger' junction. This will allow access to the McDonalds and other local business.

There's no news on the other potential GSJ where the A518 meets the A50 north-east of town.

Map extract just for reference.

[Helvellyn]

... will be rebuilt as a 'hamburger' junction. This will allow access to the McDonalds...

Ba-dum!

[Bryn666]

Yesterday's Burton Mail (front page; can't find online article) carried an item saying the junction between the A50 and B5030 north of Uttoxeter will be rebuilt as a 'hamburger' junction. This will allow access to the McDonalds and other local business.

There's no news on the other potential GSJ where the A518 meets the A50 north-east of town.

Map extract just for reference.

Screenshot_20240102_112608_OS Maps.jpg

Why?! Why aren't they just converting both roundabouts to a single GSJ using the lovely overbridge that's in the middle like normal people? Does McDonalds really have that much sway?

[Peter Freeman]

... will be rebuilt as a 'hamburger' junction. This will allow access to the McDonalds...

Ba-dum!

[GeorgeEvans]

Why?! Why aren't they just converting both roundabouts to a single GSJ using the lovely overbridge that's in the middle like normal people? Does McDonalds really have that much sway?

Quite. I think McD and other businesses at that spot are very vocal about this. Likewise at the other eastern junction. BTW the A518 roundabout is 'oven ready' to be converted to the GSJ it was intended to be when they made the Dove bridge improvements in the 1980s(?). It's as if the planners are being perverse!

[Bryn666]

Why?! Why aren't they just converting both roundabouts to a single GSJ using the lovely overbridge that's in the middle like normal people? Does McDonalds really have that much sway?

Quite. I think McD and other businesses at that spot are very vocal about this. Likewise at the other eastern junction. BTW the A518 roundabout is 'oven ready' to be converted to the GSJ it was intended to be when they made the Dove bridge improvements in the 1980s(?). It's as if the planners are being perverse!

You could easily provide a direct access to McDonalds from the A50 with some thought but I'm guessing the DMRB wonks won't have it, so rather than being creative they'd rather screw over 10,000s of vehicle movements a day so a few burgers can be sold.

[GeorgeEvans]

I guess that's why it's called flipping burgers!

Apropos, I wonder what the pros and cons are of hamburger junctions? I imagine priority would be given to the dual carriageway using 'intelligent' traffic lights.

[Chris5156]

BTW the A518 roundabout is 'oven ready' to be converted to the GSJ it was intended to be when they made the Dove bridge improvements in the 1980s(?). It's as if the planners are being perverse!

It looks like an ordinary roundabout to me - I must be missing something! What provision was made for a GSJ?

[GeorgeEvans]

Chris: It's not apparent on OS paper mapping, but the eastern & western approaches to the 'motel' roundabout have central reservations wide enough to accommodate a flyover - possibly just a single lane in each direction.

Why this wasn't created along with the other improvements is a mystery!

[aj444]

Why?! Why aren't they just converting both roundabouts to a single GSJ using the lovely overbridge that's in the middle like normal people? Does McDonalds really have that much sway?

This is just the sort of car dependent development you are always grumbling about!

A side effect of the above - unless I'm not understanding the proposal - is to cut off half of Uttoxeter from it's bus service (Uttoxeter to Ashbourne). Another nail in the coffin for a (so far surviving) rural route.

https://bustimes.org/services/sw-derby- ... /522191196

[Big L]

Why?! Why aren't they just converting both roundabouts to a single GSJ using the lovely overbridge that's in the middle like normal people? Does McDonalds really have that much sway?

This is just the sort of car dependent development you are always grumbling about!

A side effect of the above - unless I'm not understanding the proposal - is to cut off half of Uttoxeter from it's bus service (Uttoxeter to Ashbourne). Another nail in the coffin for a (so far surviving) rural route.

https://bustimes.org/services/sw-derby- ... /522191196

A hamburger (road variety) is just a roundabout with an at-grade straight-on on one route. Think of an overpass but flattened down to ground level and controlled by lots of traffic lights. Nothing gets cut off.

[Bryn666]

Why?! Why aren't they just converting both roundabouts to a single GSJ using the lovely overbridge that's in the middle like normal people? Does McDonalds really have that much sway?

This is just the sort of car dependent development you are always grumbling about!

A side effect of the above - unless I'm not understanding the proposal - is to cut off half of Uttoxeter from it's bus service (Uttoxeter to Ashbourne). Another nail in the coffin for a (so far surviving) rural route.

https://bustimes.org/services/sw-derby- ... /522191196

No, retaining a flat roundabout because a drive thru burger joint has the butthurt about "losing access" is car dependent development at the expense of a nationally strategic dual carriageway trunk road which should be fully grade separated. The bus service would not be cut off either, the road in question is barely a minute detour and journey times would be improved by not having to wait for ages to get a gap to cross the A50.

[SouthWest Philip]

The solution for removing the two roundabouts at Uttoxeter seems to be as simple as converting the eastern roundabout into a LILO on the westbound carriageway and doing likewise for the eastbound carriageway at the western roundabout? The road connection to the B5030 into Uttoxeter would be severed but a bridge could be put in place for pedestrians and cyclists.

It looks like it would be pretty easy to provide a short service road alongside the eastbound carriageway to cater for both the LILO to the A518/B5030(N) and McDonald's/petrol station, much like on the A45/A4071 Blue Boar junction near Rugby.

This is actually quite a cheap fix that should have been done when the A518 overbridge was put in.place.

[Chris5156]

Chris: It's not apparent on OS paper mapping, but the eastern & western approaches to the 'motel' roundabout have central reservations wide enough to accommodate a flyover - possibly just a single lane in each direction.

Do you mean this? That looks very much like a visibility splay to me - the central reservation is wider to allow the barrier to be pushed back for forward visibility around the corner. For the road to be safe at 70mph while turning a corner like that you need to create space on the inside to allow you to see further ahead. It's the same reason there are wide central reservations here and here, for example.

The actual distance between the two carriageways appears to be about 11m at its widest, which is narrower than a two-lane single carriageway. Given that a theoretical two-lane single carriageway flyover would require extra width for parapets and so on, plus a gap between its sides and the carriageways at ground level, I don't think you could realistically build anything there. I'm also fairly sure you'd need to realign the approaches, since they don't line up in a way that would allow a smoothly flowing through route.

[wrinkly]

Chris: It's not apparent on OS paper mapping, but the eastern & western approaches to the 'motel' roundabout have central reservations wide enough to accommodate a flyover - possibly just a single lane in each direction.

Why this wasn't created along with the other improvements is a mystery!

Doesn't look wide enough for grade separation to me, unless they built expensive long retaining walls instead of embankment slopes. More likely just a locally slightly widened central reservation for sightline reasons.

[GeorgeEvans]

Chris & Wrinkly:
Ah, now I understand. Looking at it on Google Earth I see exactly what you mean. Mystery solved. Many thanks.

[GeorgeEvans]

Philip:
This is how I imagined it at the time the 'JCB' GSJ was developed. There's also an opportunity to extend the cycleway westward for a mile or so.