A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

[Bryn666]

Yes, a full closure of the M25. All weekend. I had always understood that the only permissible hours for M25 closures were 10pm-5am. How has this been arrived at, and what will Surrey look like with the M25 closed for a whole weekend?

I fear this is “normal” now - extended closures of critical roads for the convenience of construction project planning. The M4 Smart Motorway works got away with murder in this respect and there wasn’t nearly enough push back to prevent it happening again.

I don’t really know what they’re demolishing that will take a whole weekend, though - all the existing interchange bridges are remaining when the scheme is complete, so it’s not those. There’s an accommodation bridge over the M25 just west of the interchange that might need replacing to make room for the extended sliproads - is that it?

If they actually get the job done I don't have an objection but it really does feel like contractors are just steamrolling (ha ha) the industry lately. Makes you wonder what incentives or interests are being bandied about doesn't it.

[jervi]

I don’t really know what they’re demolishing that will take a whole weekend, though - all the existing interchange bridges are remaining when the scheme is complete, so it’s not those. There’s an accommodation bridge over the M25 just west of the interchange that might need replacing to make room for the extended sliproads - is that it?

Yeah the existing bridleway/accommodation bridge on the Western side is being demolished and then replaced further away with a bridge which can accommodate the additional width of the realigned M25 slip roads.

Plus there are significant improvements for NMUs along the A3 & over the M25.

Yes, but there are better ways of improving such an important junction like J10 of the M25. Just because this option includes improvements to NMU infrastructure doesn't mean that the other options didn't.

All options included similar proposals to the NMU routes. Just stating that from the pervious layout, the changes aren't just a bigger roundabout, but a whole range of changes included NMU provisions being more than a shared pavement a few meters away from a D3 which crosses over a Trunk road interchange roundabout several times.

[darkcape]

Yes, a full closure of the M25. All weekend. I had always understood that the only permissible hours for M25 closures were 10pm-5am. How has this been arrived at, and what will Surrey look like with the M25 closed for a whole weekend?

I fear this is “normal” now - extended closures of critical roads for the convenience of construction project planning. The M4 Smart Motorway works got away with murder in this respect and there wasn’t nearly enough push back to prevent it happening again.

I don’t really know what they’re demolishing that will take a whole weekend, though - all the existing interchange bridges are remaining when the scheme is complete, so it’s not those. There’s an accommodation bridge over the M25 just west of the interchange that might need replacing to make room for the extended sliproads - is that it?

If they actually get the job done I don't have an objection but it really does feel like contractors are just steamrolling (ha ha) the industry lately. Makes you wonder what incentives or interests are being bandied about doesn't it.

Generally in my experience it is the Client not being strict enough by stipulating what traffic management is/isn't permitted, which leaves them open to a claim if they refuse, say, a full weekend closure. The lack of options to demolish bridges via explosives (I think its been over a decade now since a highways bridge was blown up) means slower methods are needed.

[A320Driver]

New NMU bridges now installed over M25 east of J10.

As a regular user of the junction, it does seem within the last month or so the earthworks and bridge abutment works have really ramped up.

Still a monumental waste of £312 million though.

IMG_2893.jpeg (93.4 KiB) Viewed 1578 times

[John McAdam]

According to the project webpage there are some closures coming up for this scheme:

Throughout 2024 there will be other full weekend closures of the A3 and M25.

The first two closures are:

Friday 23 February 9pm to Monday 26 February 6am the A3 will be closed in both directions between Send and M25 Junction 10 Wisley Interchange, for demolition works.

Friday 15 March 9pm to Monday 18 March 6am the M25 between junction 10 and 11 in both directions, for demolition works and gantry installation.

Yes, a full closure of the M25. All weekend. I had always understood that the only permissible hours for M25 closures were 10pm-5am. How has this been arrived at, and what will Surrey look like with the M25 closed for a whole weekend?

I did a little searching around for confirmation of this, as I was wondering if the message had perhaps somehow got garbled en route to the NH website, but I found this story on SurreyLive confirming a full weekend closure of the M25 is the intention:
Dates of full weekend closure of M25 and A3 Wisley Interchange as Surrey beauty spot forced to shut

The article includes this quote from the NH Senior Project Manager for the upgrade works, Jonathan Wade:

“We understand the significance of closing the M25 for the weekend, which is why we are giving motorists as much notice as possible so they’re able to plan their journeys well in advance. [...] We carefully plan all our closures to try and limit any inconvenience, but sometimes it's simply not possible to carry out the work that's needed without a closure.”

That said, I couldn't easily find other news sources that mentioned this closure. I assume (hope) the publicity machine will ramp up in the coming 5 weeks until this closure.

[Bryn666]

The Independent is now reporting the weekend closure is going ahead from 15th March.

[Chris5156]

The Independent is now reporting the weekend closure is going ahead from 15th March.

The same is appearing on VMS around the area too.

[Vierwielen]

Yes, a full closure of the M25. All weekend. I had always understood that the only permissible hours for M25 closures were 10pm-5am. How has this been arrived at, and what will Surrey look like with the M25 closed for a whole weekend?

I fear this is “normal” now - extended closures of critical roads for the convenience of construction project planning. The M4 Smart Motorway works got away with murder in this respect and there wasn’t nearly enough push back to prevent it happening again.

I don’t really know what they’re demolishing that will take a whole weekend, though - all the existing interchange bridges are remaining when the scheme is complete, so it’s not those. There’s an accommodation bridge over the M25 just west of the interchange that might need replacing to make room for the extended sliproads - is that it?

If they actually get the job done I don't have an objection but it really does feel like contractors are just steamrolling (ha ha) the industry lately. Makes you wonder what incentives or interests are being bandied about doesn't it.

I know that in the past, contractors had to "rent" lanes from the highways authority in order to do their work. Obviously the "rental" was built into the price. I rcall a similar situation when I was working on an IT contract for Systems Designers (SD) with the ultimate customer being the Met Police. The specification (to which everybody working on the contract had access) stated that the whole computer system could be down for planned maintenace for a period of eight hours for one weekend a month. Otherwise, if the system was taken down by SD during core hours, an hourly penalty would apply as specified in Appendix B. Outside core hours it was one third of the base penalty. Appendix B was only available to senior management - it was sufficient for those lower down the pecking order to understand why we had to stay late one day when the system was being taken down unexpectedly. I suspect the same approach is taken by the road contractor - a total closure of the M25 might be cost effective when compared to other options.

[John McAdam]

The Independent is now reporting the weekend closure is going ahead from 15th March.

Likewise multiple other news outlets published an article yesterday (Tuesday 5 March), such as the Beeb - M25 section to close for entire weekend.

No great surprise given that yesterday was when National Highways chose to issue a press release on the closure, complete with a fairly arresting headline:
M25 braced for first ever planned full closure as drivers warned of long delays and told to only travel if necessary

And what's more, there's four further closures in store...

This will be the first of five closures between now and September 2024 – prompting National Highways to warn motorists of long delays and to only travel if necessary.

The designated diversion route (via A3, A245 and A320) can be seen on the M25 junction 10 project webpage.

[SteveA30]

Ta Mac

[Chris5156]

The designated diversion route (via A3, A245 and A320) can be seen on the M25 junction 10 project webpage.

Yikes. Pity the residents of West Byfleet. That route (and all surrounding roads) will be carnage during each closure.

[Ritchie333]

The designated diversion route (via A3, A245 and A320) can be seen on the M25 junction 10 project webpage.

Yikes. Pity the residents of West Byfleet. That route (and all surrounding roads) will be carnage during each closure.

It's normally congested when the M25 is fully open! Fortunately I don't have to go anywhere near the area next weekend.

I would have thought a better diversion route would be simply to go the other way round the M25 via the Dartford Crossing. Certainly for HGVs that make sense. And for overheight vehicles, divert via A3, M27 and M3.

[Bryn666]

If we're optimistic, the closure over a weekend of the world's busiest road - I-405 in Los Angeles - didn't cause the end of the world, people dealt with it.

The key thing is people heeding the warnings to stay away; they did this in LA. Are people in Surrey likely to be more entitled and know-it-all than this and travel anyway, then complaining they got stuck in mayhem?

[SouthWest Philip]

I would have thought a better diversion route would be simply to go the other way round the M25 via the Dartford Crossing. Certainly for HGVs that make sense. And for overheight vehicles, divert via A3, M27 and M3.

I'm sure the 'other way round' alternative will be recommended on all the major approaches to the M25. More feasible if travelling from the M40 to the M20 than, say, the M3 to the M23.

Nobody's going to go all the way down to the M27. But I did half expect the A3/A31/A331/M3 to be the official diversion.

[Chris5156]

I would have thought a better diversion route would be simply to go the other way round the M25 via the Dartford Crossing. Certainly for HGVs that make sense. And for overheight vehicles, divert via A3, M27 and M3.

I'm sure the 'other way round' alternative will be recommended on all the major approaches to the M25. More feasible if travelling from the M40 to the M20 than, say, the M3 to the M23.

Nobody's going to go all the way down to the M27. But I did half expect the A3/A31/A331/M3 to be the official diversion.

Luckily I won't be in this position, but if I did need to get from one side of the closure to the other, I'd be tempted to do that anyway. You'd still be mired in queues at Wisley but the rest would be preferable to grinding through West Byfleet and the suburbs of Woking.

[BigBazz]

The designated diversion route (via A3, A245 and A320) can be seen on the M25 junction 10 project webpage.

It's the usual signed diversion route too: Hollow triangle when heading clockwise and hollow square anticlockwise.

[Micro The Maniac]

The designated diversion route (via A3, A245 and A320) can be seen on the M25 junction 10 project webpage.

As always, the "official" diversion route looks a bit long-winded... I suspect the A318 through Byfleet and Addlestone will be gridlocked!

ETA: Point already made above

[jnty]

The designated diversion route (via A3, A245 and A320) can be seen on the M25 junction 10 project webpage.

As always, the "official" diversion route looks a bit long-winded... I suspect the A318 through Byfleet and Addlestone will be gridlocked!

ETA: Point already made above

Presumably this bridge is why it's not being recommended officially!?

[Micro The Maniac]

The key thing is people heeding the warnings to stay away; they did this in LA. Are people in Surrey likely to be more entitled and know-it-all than this and travel anyway, then complaining they got stuck in mayhem?

On the other hand, there are plenty of alternative major routes in LA... in the UK we build a new road, then massacre the existing routes - there is no resilience nor are there any sensible alternative routes

That the alternative route for a D4 motorway is mostly an S2 A-road proves this point...

Annoyingly, next Saturday, I need to be in Croydon for 8am... it's normally a 40 minute (tops) drive (via the affected stretch of the M25), or an over two hour train journey... I suspect everywhere in the south-west quadrant will be affected, so I guess I'll be putting my trust in South West Railway, which is never a great option

[jnty]

The key thing is people heeding the warnings to stay away; they did this in LA. Are people in Surrey likely to be more entitled and know-it-all than this and travel anyway, then complaining they got stuck in mayhem?

On the other hand, there are plenty of alternative major routes in LA... in the UK we build a new road, then massacre the existing routes - there is no resilience nor are there any sensible alternative routes

That the alternative route for a D4 motorway is mostly an S2 A-road proves this point...

Annoyingly, next Saturday, I need to be in Croydon for 8am... it's normally a 40 minute (tops) drive, or an over two hour train journey...

You say that, but the diversion route will probably only handle a fraction of the journeys that would have been handled by the M25 normally. Setting aside those who just won't travel, long distance traffic will end up using routes like the A34 or even M/A27, or just the other side of the M25. Local traffic will use direct back roads, and regional traffic will probably find more inner radial routes. There are alternative routes for most journeys, not just a perfect backup dual carriageway running parallel, which does stand to some kind of reason. Especially in the era of satnavs, the diversion is probably only going to end up used by drivers who arrive at the closure totally uninitiated.