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jackal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 17:18
Still, one might query why they've taken it upon themselves to make changes to the A66 west beyond the immediate flaring at J40. Naturally as soon as you start applying modern standards to the legacy estate you are going to find things that need re-engineering and/or a lower speed limit, so the scheme budget starts getting spent on things that have nothing to do with the scheme purposes. There's not really any more reason to modernise the LILOs 200 yards from J40 than there is the ones 500 yards from J40, which will be left as they are (including speed limit).
One might at least suggest that 70mph>30mph is quite an extreme cut and that 40mph or 50mph might be more appropriate.
Its an auction market for farm equipment which is typically rather large, slow and on a low loader.
fras wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:34
I think I saw an ad last in the Daily Telegraph, or The Times advising that the DCO for these improvements had been requested. I recall is was a complete page, so would have been the Times.
The application for the DCO was accepted for examination on 19 July last year. The examination began on 29 November and closes on 29 May. Maybe the notice you saw related to the batch of proposed changes to the DCO discussed in some of the last few posts. I think it's unusual for such extensive changes to be proposed by the promoter during examination, but this is an unusually extensive scheme and is being somewhat fast-tracked.
You could well be right. I didn't pay it all that much attention, I have to say.
Big Nick wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:37
My 1995 (edition B4) OS Outdoor Leisure 5 map shows the A66(T) as dual carriageway from M6 J40 to halfway between the B6262 and the Countess Pillar.
That's very curious. Mine (which, as stated above, shows less dual carriageway) is B3, with selected revision dates in the 1980s. Is the depiction on your map identical to the current 1:25000 mapping as shown, for example, on streetmap.co.uk ?
I would have thought the more recent dates fitted better with my memories, but that would mean that edition B4 showed an improvement as completed when it was actually merely proposed!
As the dualling was on existing highway land it would not have required any statutory orders so we can't get a handle on the question that way.
My map and the website show practically identical roads. I only drove on that stretch sometime after 2002.
wrinkly wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 00:59
Thanks for that.
I don't see why the 30 limit needs to apply westbound, going away from J40. The need for it comes from the eastbound LILO.
I've skimmed the first two-thirds of the consultation document and bits of the last third. The general theme seems to be simplification and very sensible.
One of the most interesting parts for me is the proposed change in shape of the A6 roundabout (pp. 32-33). This is currently a flat, elongated roundabout with its long axis east-west along the line of the A66. The A66 is to be taken under it. Hitherto the proposal was to leave its shape unchanged, which I found a bit surprising. Now it is proposed is to stretch it northwards (and a bit southwards) while squashing it in the east-west direction, making it a more conventional shape for a GS roundabout. Thus the bridges can be built without having to temporarily divert the roundabout first.
Still, one might query why they've taken it upon themselves to make changes to the A66 west beyond the immediate flaring at J40. Naturally as soon as you start applying modern standards to the legacy estate you are going to find things that need re-engineering and/or a lower speed limit, so the scheme budget starts getting spent on things that have nothing to do with the scheme purposes. There's not really any more reason to modernise the LILOs 200 yards from J40 than there is the ones 500 yards from J40, which will be left as they are (including speed limit).
One might at least suggest that 70mph>30mph is quite an extreme cut and that 40mph or 50mph might be more appropriate.
Ideally you'd have it at 50 entering from Slapestones/ Rheged rbt.
Truvelo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 18:27
But won't it then all come crashing to a halt at the M6?
They are doing some mods to the M6 junction but often when the queues go back to the M6 off ramp the queue has usually worked all the way back from Kemplay Roundabout. I cant recall any serious issues getting on to the M6
Truvelo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 18:27
But won't it then all come crashing to a halt at the M6?
They are doing some mods to the M6 junction but often when the queues go back to the M6 off ramp the queue has usually worked all the way back from Kemplay Roundabout. I cant recall any serious issues getting on to the M6
Truvelo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 18:27
But won't it then all come crashing to a halt at the M6?
They are doing some mods to the M6 junction but often when the queues go back to the M6 off ramp the queue has usually worked all the way back from Kemplay Roundabout. I cant recall any serious issues getting on to the M6
Widen the existing dual carriageway between M6 junction 40 and Kemplay Bank to three lanes in each direction
Construct a new dual-carriageway underpass below the existing Kemplay Bank roundabout – enabling free-flowing traffic along the A66 and improving access to Penrith and the A6
Create new slip roads to the A6 and A686 at Kemplay Bank roundabout, allowing drivers to safely join and leave the A66 in both directions. This will also serve the local road network with links to Penrith, Eamont Bridge and other local areas
Re-route cycleways and footways around the Kemplay Bank roundabout
Reduce the speed limit to 50mph (both directions) between Kemplay Bank and M6 junction 40 to create a safer driving experience for all road users
The installation and upgrading of the traffic signals at M6 junction 40 and Kemplay Bank to control traffic movements and to create safer crossing points for pedestrians and cyclists.
Current issues
As the main point of access to Penrith, M6 junction 40 experiences high volumes of traffic from the M6 and the A66 to the west. M6 junction 40 is also prone to bottlenecks caused by congestion at the Kemplay Bank roundabout. This affects the flow of traffic along the A66 and for north and southbound traffic using the A6.
Although the road between M6 junction 40 and the Kemplay Bank roundabout is a dual carriageway, vehicles slowing down as they approach Kemplay Bank can cause safety issues and create prob
There will be no additional slip roads or segregated left turns at J40. When they say "a dedicated left turn" they just seem to mean that lane 1 on A66 westbound will be designated for the left turn rather than for the left turn or straight ahead.
Why go to the expense and interruption of sinking an underpass ?
There is enough land and a direct route that would enable the A66 to be taken away from the A66 and run across to the M6 with a simple junction onto the M6. Bear in mind the traffic flows are predominately M6 south the A66 east and A66 west to M6 north. If would sort that out and get some of the flows away from junction 40 that would allow flow to be separated.
jackal wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 14:49
There will be no additional slip roads or segregated left turns at J40. When they say "a dedicated left turn" they just seem to mean that lane 1 on A66 westbound will be designated for the left turn rather than for the left turn or straight ahead.
(This was the layout prior to the current consultation; the only change to J40 itself is the NMU route.)
What is there right now on the slip roads is this
southbound - a dedicated left turn lane, a shared middle lane and right turn lane
northbound - a shared left turn lane, a shared lane 2 that widens on the roundabout to 3 lanes https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.65307 ... !1e3?hl=en
What the scheme shows is this
southbound - 2 dedicated left turn lanes, a shared middle lane and right turn lane 4 in all
northbound - same as southbound
Gav wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 15:30
Why go to the expense and interruption of sinking an underpass ?
There is enough land and a direct route that would enable the A66 to be taken away from the A66 and run across to the M6 with a simple junction onto the M6. Bear in mind the traffic flows are predominately M6 south the A66 east and A66 west to M6 north. If would sort that out and get some of the flows away from junction 40 that would allow flow to be separated.
Assuming you are talking about Kemplay Bank, the new proposal is for a flyover.
I'm not sure exactly what you are proposing for the M6 connection, but it would be in addition to the requirement for a GSJ at or near Kemplay Bank, so obviously the costs and land take would be much higher than NH's proposal.
Gav wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 15:30
Why go to the expense and interruption of sinking an underpass ?
There is enough land and a direct route that would enable the A66 to be taken away from the A66 and run across to the M6 with a simple junction onto the M6. Bear in mind the traffic flows are predominately M6 south the A66 east and A66 west to M6 north. If would sort that out and get some of the flows away from junction 40 that would allow flow to be separated.
There is already a route from Brough south to Tebay along the A685.
From J40 the A66 continues west to Workington and if you try and deviate north of Brough there is some rather unpleasant terrain to contend with. The origins of the A66 were laid out by the Romans and they knew a thing or too about road building.
ajuk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 19:36
Why does it have to be D2 rather than lost of sections of S2+1, that's what the A470 is badly missing, overtaking opportunities.
The A66 is rather busier than the A470 with a higher proportion of HGVs. And D2 has a lot better safety record than S2+1.
Gav wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 15:30
Why go to the expense and interruption of sinking an underpass ?
There is enough land and a direct route that would enable the A66 to be taken away from the A66 and run across to the M6 with a simple junction onto the M6. Bear in mind the traffic flows are predominately M6 south the A66 east and A66 west to M6 north. If would sort that out and get some of the flows away from junction 40 that would allow flow to be separated.
Is A66 W to M6 N really that big a flow? I'd have thought a lot of traffic coming from that direction on the A66 would be tourists heading south from a visit to the Lakes.
Gav wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 15:30
Why go to the expense and interruption of sinking an underpass ?
There is enough land and a direct route that would enable the A66 to be taken away from the A66 and run across to the M6 with a simple junction onto the M6. Bear in mind the traffic flows are predominately M6 south the A66 east and A66 west to M6 north. If would sort that out and get some of the flows away from junction 40 that would allow flow to be separated.
Is A66 W to M6 N really that big a flow? I'd have thought a lot of traffic coming from that direction on the A66 would be tourists heading south from a visit to the Lakes.
Cant see how its likely AADF from the west is only 18k, about the same level as the A66 E and the M6 south is hardly overloaded, I have never had any problems getting on to the M6 southbound. Equally a lot of traffic comes north up the M6/A6 from the southern Lakes to take the A66 over the pennines and on to Teesside and Tyneside.
Gav wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 15:30
Why go to the expense and interruption of sinking an underpass ?
There is enough land and a direct route that would enable the A66 to be taken away from the A66 and run across to the M6 with a simple junction onto the M6. Bear in mind the traffic flows are predominately M6 south the A66 east and A66 west to M6 north. If would sort that out and get some of the flows away from junction 40 that would allow flow to be separated.
Is A66 W to M6 N really that big a flow? I'd have thought a lot of traffic coming from that direction on the A66 would be tourists heading south from a visit to the Lakes.
I think this is the classic west vs westbound confusion. Gav’s post makes perfect sense if you read “westbound” instead of “west”, “northbound” instead of “north”, etc.
