A428 Black Cat - Caxton Gibbet improvement

[JackieRoads]

Looks like the route has been plotted onto Open Streetmap: SABRE Maps Link - it wasn't there a week ago as I was busy tracing the C roads around Bedford.

It was changed from "planned" (does not show up when simply browsing OSM) to "construction" (which does show up).

Ah, I didn't know how it was done so quickly, makes sense. I just cover it in black squiggly lines so don't really know what happens behind the scenes.

One question: So what will happen to the Black cat?

If it is to be kept, I would assume that it would be kept on the roundabout once the new junction has been built.

I would think it would be placed on the new roundabout. There was a lot of outrage when it disappeared/got kidnapped a few years ago.

Where on the new roundabout? Under the A428 flyover?

[KeithW]

Where on the new roundabout? Under the A428 flyover?

As I recall the new junction is a 3 level stackabout so we have
A1 - straight through under the roundabout - level 1
A428 - run straight through over the roundabout - level 3
The roundabout carries the turning traffic - Level 2

See
https://www.roads.org.uk/interchanges/t ... roundabout

[6637]

Looks like the route has been plotted onto Open Streetmap: SABRE Maps Link - it wasn't there a week ago as I was busy tracing the C roads around Bedford.

It was changed from "planned" (does not show up when simply browsing OSM) to "construction" (which does show up).

Ah, I didn't know how it was done so quickly, makes sense. I just cover it in black squiggly lines so don't really know what happens behind the scenes.

Was pretty convenient, I was ready to plot the route myself but noticed that someone had already done so, so all I needed to do was changing the designation from "proposed" to "construction".

Incidentally the planned East West Rail route in the area was also already on OSM running alongside it, but you wouldn't see it unless you go to edit it, because that one is still "Proposed".

[MikeL]

Next step per National Highways scheme page:

"We will be reconstructing the existing central reservation into a running lane – this means we will keep two lanes open on the A421 eastbound when we move into construction.

This work will start from Monday 30 October 2023 until mid-January 2024 and our working hours will be 7:30am to 5pm. Your journey will not be affected, as we will be maintaining two lanes of traffic in both directions on the A421."

So things really do seem to be moving forward.

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-road ... trictions/

[frediculous_biggs]

Where on the new roundabout? Under the A428 flyover?

As I recall the new junction is a 3 level stackabout so we have
A1 - straight through under the roundabout - level 1
A428 - run straight through over the roundabout - level 3
The roundabout carries the turning traffic - Level 2

See
https://www.roads.org.uk/interchanges/t ... roundabout

Yes but the question was regarding the placement of the Black Cat artwork, not the structure of the junction

[skiddaw05]

Where on the new roundabout? Under the A428 flyover?

As I recall the new junction is a 3 level stackabout so we have
A1 - straight through under the roundabout - level 1
A428 - run straight through over the roundabout - level 3
The roundabout carries the turning traffic - Level 2

See
https://www.roads.org.uk/interchanges/t ... roundabout

Yes but the question was regarding the placement of the Black Cat artwork, not the structure of the junction

I've wondered about this, there will be no physical middle of the roundabout to put the cat like there is now. It would be a shame if it was taken away but it would be hardly noticed if it was (say) put on the central reserve on the A1

[6637]

I've wondered about this, there will be no physical middle of the roundabout to put the cat like there is now. It would be a shame if it was taken away but it would be hardly noticed if it was (say) put on the central reserve on the A1

It will be returned but the placement hasn't been announced yet https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-road ... black-cat/

[jervi]

I've wondered about this, there will be no physical middle of the roundabout to put the cat like there is now. It would be a shame if it was taken away but it would be hardly noticed if it was (say) put on the central reserve on the A1

It will be returned but the placement hasn't been announced yet https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-road ... black-cat/

https://youtu.be/mVAzAV8GjrI?si=IzrPJ2i8GLzvNQlC&t=54

Depending on how accurate this is, it appear to be the North Western quadrant of the roundabout.
They bothered to put a north arrow on, but the traffic on the A421 seems to be right side running.

[jackal]

Skanska has secured an extra £24m for its £655m A428 Black Cat dualling job after a legal challenge delayed the start of work.

National Highways has now cleared Skanska to start main construction before the end of year on the 16km dual carriageway upgrade in Cambridgeshire and Bedfordshire.

The extra cash will compensate for cost inflation impacts caused by climate campaign group Transport Action Network’s legal challenge to planning consent.

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/20 ... art-delay/

[A320Driver]

NH should claim the costs against TAN, rather than just loading it onto the taxpayer.

Drove past today, the Travelodge at Black Cat in the process of being demolished.

[Herned]

NH should claim the costs against TAN, rather than just loading it onto the taxpayer.

Drove past today, the Travelodge at Black Cat in the process of being demolished.

A) That's profoundly undemocratic
B) What would be the point? They won't have anything in the way of assets or cash in the bank

[RichardA35]

By the same token the £655M has sat in the bank for extra months so has gained some more interest to offset the extra inflation over the project timescale...
(I know the public purse doesn't work like that and the money will have been spent on other things)

[Big L]

NH should claim the costs against TAN, rather than just loading it onto the taxpayer.

Drove past today, the Travelodge at Black Cat in the process of being demolished.

A) That's profoundly undemocratic
B) What would be the point? They won't have anything in the way of assets or cash in the bank

Yeah, vote no on bulldozing Travelodges. Actually, vote yes, they’re almost universally horrid.

[A320Driver]

NH should claim the costs against TAN, rather than just loading it onto the taxpayer.

Drove past today, the Travelodge at Black Cat in the process of being demolished.

A) That's profoundly undemocratic
B) What would be the point? They won't have anything in the way of assets or cash in the bank

Why is it undemocratic? One could argue it is undemocratic for NH to spend our money without asking permission!

I’ll wager that TAN used legal aid to fund their woke campaign. Sue them for losses, and set an example for any future appeals.

[Chris5156]

Why is it undemocratic? One could argue it is undemocratic for NH to spend our money without asking permission!

Making punitive fines against people who bring legal challenges against government projects is undemocratic because it punishes a legitimate means of democratic opposition to a project, and would punish it to a degree that would effectively make it impossible. Making opposition to a government impossible is a hallmark of totalitarianism.

You don't have to like TAN or the legal challenges they brought, but objecting to the fact that you can take the government to court is objecting to the mechanics of a democracy.

(You can't argue it's undemocratic for NH to spend "our" money without asking permission, because they are directed to spend it by the government, who are acting with a democratic mandate.)

I’ll wager that TAN used legal aid to fund their woke campaign. Sue them for losses, and set an example for any future appeals.

They crowdfunded their legal fees.

[KeithW]

NH should claim the costs against TAN, rather than just loading it onto the taxpayer.

Drove past today, the Travelodge at Black Cat in the process of being demolished.

A) That's profoundly undemocratic
B) What would be the point? They won't have anything in the way of assets or cash in the bank

Well it might be difficult to access once the new slip road goes through the car park and I doubt anyone would sleep too well



Being serious for a moment why should the taxpayer foot the bill for protestors delaying the inevitable.

[A320Driver]

I never said I object to democracy, or the ability to make legal challenges, in principle. But TAN don’t really have any specific objections to the A428 scheme, it’s in low-lying semi-rural countryside. They just like banging their drum as part of the general ‘cars are bad’ mantra. At least at Stonehenge the protagonists have a point!

It is wrong that a legal case brought about gets thrown out yet the defendant is out of pocket. Not how it works in the small claims court, but because it’s just the taxpayer who has to cough up, who cares.

[Herned]

Yeah, vote no on bulldozing Travelodges. Actually, vote yes, they’re almost universally horrid.

I have stayed in a few and have never stayed in a bad one. You get what you pay for obviously but they have always been clean, comfortable with decent sized rooms. Some of the actual locations are grim though

[Alderpoint]

Yeah, vote no on bulldozing Travelodges. Actually, vote yes, they’re almost universally horrid.

I have stayed in a few and have never stayed in a bad one. You get what you pay for obviously but they have always been clean, comfortable with decent sized rooms. Some of the actual locations are grim though

Agreed Travelodges have got much better over the past 10 years. There are still some grotty ones, but they are now in the minority.

And cheap places have a role to play: my adult son (hopefully) has a major celebration in a month or so and many of his friends are coming up for the event. They are all staying in the local travelodge which 100% fulfills their needs and is far better value than anything else in the area.

[RichardEvans67]

NH should claim the costs against TAN, rather than just loading it onto the taxpayer.

Drove past today, the Travelodge at Black Cat in the process of being demolished.

A) That's profoundly undemocratic
B) What would be the point? They won't have anything in the way of assets or cash in the bank

I agree. That would make it near impossible for many decisions to be challenged.

I see the issue as one of it taking so long for the challenge to be resolved. Even when there was no valid case. I think that's mostly because of the time taken waiting for court dates. I wonder if this could be speeded up by having a dedicated court system for reviewing DCOs.