Third Menai Crossing (consultation)

[Nathan_A_RF]

Now scrapped in the roads policy review
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64640215

[fras]

So cycling and a few extra buses is going to sort out the Welsh economy. I have to say, I don't see it myself.

[KeithW]

So how does scrapping the Third Menai Crossing get people to Anglesey if there is a problem with the bridge ? I don't see the old bridge coping very well.

[rhyds]

So how does scrapping the Third Menai Crossing get people to Anglesey if there is a problem with the bridge ? I don't see the old bridge coping very well.

Its the old bridge (Menai Bridge /A5) that has structural concerns, the Britannia Bridge/A55 is structurally sound but is under capacity and vulnerable to high winds

The answer is bicycles. I'm not sure how, but apparently that's what we're being told.

[KeithW]

So how does scrapping the Third Menai Crossing get people to Anglesey if there is a problem with the bridge ? I don't see the old bridge coping very well.

Its the old bridge (Menai Bridge /A5) that has structural concerns, the Britannia Bridge/A55 is structurally sound but is under capacity and vulnerable to high winds

The answer is bicycles. I'm not sure how, but apparently that's what we're being told.

The old bridge is currently the problem but stuff happens and being dependent on a single point of failure for a large percentage of your transport capacity is rarely a good plan. As for bicycles I can see it now - a whole fleet of Arkwright style shop bikes



Throw in some tandems and that's it solved right ?

As for the strait all I can say is pedalo's.

[c2R]

Much freight and passenger traffic is going via Birkenhead and cairnryan anyway so pressure on the link isn't as great as it would have been without Brexit. I've not experienced problems outside of sunset bank holidays there since before COVID....

[AndyB]

It does raise the question of what happens if the Britannia Bridge needs an emergency unplanned closure, and lorry drivers are already on their way from Dublin to Holyhead. Has the Menai Bridge been risk assessed for emergency use by overweight vehicles that meet the height and width constraints?

If the only alternative "all vehicles route" is to return (by ferry) to Dublin and take a ferry on a different route, an altogether different proposition from diverting HGVs at Bangor to go to Birkenhead or even Cairnryan or Rosslare, we have a problem, and I don't see an acceptable alternative to a third crossing - perhaps the mooted "Dartford Crossing solution" of running one carriageway over the new bridge and the other over the Britannia bridge so that there is always redundancy.

[pjr10th]

While I personally thing more stringent criteria on road building is a good step to make, I'd class this bridge as a project which ought to have gone ahead. Then the First Menai could have been shut to through traffic, make a public transport / cycling crossing. That would have done much more for transport & cycling in the Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch/Bangor area.

[Nathan_A_RF]

There's only one of the former two rail lines crossing the Britannia Bridge - why not use the disused line as a foot & cycle path?

[AndyB]

1. Loads of cables using the space formerly occupied by the missing line
2. Unsafe to have trains passing cyclists and pedestrians at 40mph without sufficient clearance that doesn't exist

[c2R]

It does raise the question of what happens if the Britannia Bridge needs an emergency unplanned closure, and lorry drivers are already on their way from Dublin to Holyhead. Has the Menai Bridge been risk assessed for emergency use by overweight vehicles that meet the height and width constraints?

Basically, last time the Britannia Bridge was closed in such conditions, I used the Menai bridge in a 3.5T Luton box - which was hairy enough driving through - I think the physical constraints pretty much prevent anything overweight from fitting through.... Anything that was trapped on either side was just parked up, waiting. When it's that windy some of the ferries weren't going either - so I suppose it doesn't matter too much.... But, yeah, what with all the extra post brexit customs I try and avoid travelling Dublin/Holyhead if possible.

[AndyB]

If it’s windy, there’s nothing more you can do than shrug as there will be no ferries to add lorries to the queue to get off Anglesey. I’m thinking more emergency roadworks as distinct from anything planned more than 24 hours in advance (enough time for hauliers to rebook)

[c2R]

Agreed, it is a significant single point of failure - although I guess the Welsh Government are thinking that it isn't their problem, and it'll just be unfortunate for any hauliers that get stuck in it.

[ForestChav]

Agreed, it is a significant single point of failure - although I guess the Welsh Government are thinking that it isn't their problem, and it'll just be unfortunate for any hauliers that get stuck in it.

Which will ultimately affect the Welsh economy if there are frequent issues with it, as people won't be able to trust being able to get their freight over the bridge (and even lighter traffic if the suspension bridge is also shut) meaning that people will look for alternative ports to cross to Ireland than Holyhead.

If traffic isn't using the A55 and is going somewhere else further north on the west of England or even somewhere like Stranraer then this will have an impact on freight stopping in local areas for breaks or something to eat/drink or maybe somewhere to stay for the night.

[bothar]

This seems to be another case of policies which fail to distinguish between roads with different types of use. Some are used for commuting, some are used for long distance travelling. Different routes require different policies. This route is important for traffic between England and Ireland, it should be viewed differently from routes used for local commuting in Wales.

[c2R]

Agreed on both of these points. It is also very important to note that the single point of failure, the Britannia Bridge, also carries the railway line to Holyhead - if a defect is found with it affecting the ability of the bridge to take weight,for example, it could cause significiant issues for international freight - notwithstanding that the importance of both the landbridge and routes from Britain to the South of Ireland have diminshed following Brexit, with links into Belfast being preferred currently by hauliers.

The important strategic nature of the M4, A55, and A75 though for the British economy as a whole means that there is definitely a case for these routes to be taken out of the devolution package and be super-nationally managed - and, in England, similarly Dover and Harwich should have connections improved

[Rillington]

Cancelling this project is the wrong decision, assuming that it has been 100% scrapped.

As we have said, the Menai Bridge has structural issues and realistically, all that there reliably is is a single-line route across one bridge which, as said in recent posts, is not the safest crossing during strong cross-winds.

My view is that this third crossing should be built as a D2 crossing for through traffic, the Britannia Bridge should be used as a local access to the old A5 and the Menai Bridge closed to traffic vehicles (apart from emergency services) and used by cyclists and pedestrians.

[danfw194]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... t-26251557
This is quite a good article to help better understand the issues Anglesey faces economically. It's a broader article with only a fleeting mention of the third crossing. But it's a worthwhile read, and clearly demonstrates the cancellation of this project is just one small footnote in a long line of recent setbacks for Anglesey. Seems like it's a vicious circle, this third crossing was always unlikely to get any traction because of Brexit and the withdrawal of the Wylfa Newydd project regardless of the government's recent road building policy. With those issues the need for the third crossing is lessened, but on the flipside without third crossing it makes projects like Wylfa Newydd far less likely to proceed. What a mess and what a shame, Anglesey is a wonderful place and I hope things turn for the better soon.

[KeithW]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... t-26251557
This is quite a good article to help better understand the issues Anglesey faces economically. It's a broader article with only a fleeting mention of the third crossing. But it's a worthwhile read, and clearly demonstrates the cancellation of this project is just one small footnote in a long line of recent setbacks for Anglesey. Seems like it's a vicious circle, this third crossing was always unlikely to get any traction because of Brexit and the withdrawal of the Wylfa Newydd project regardless of the government's recent road building policy. With those issues the need for the third crossing is lessened, but on the flipside without third crossing it makes projects like Wylfa Newydd far less likely to proceed. What a mess and what a shame, Anglesey is a wonderful place and I hope things turn for the better soon.

Well Wylfa Newydd is dead but that has nothing to do with any third crossing of the Menai Straits. At the end of the day heavy equipment and spent fuel can be moved by ship through Amlwch Port and Holyhead if all else fails. The real problems are keeping Holyhead open and maintaining the traffic, rail and road to Anglesey from the mainland. The reality is that the Menai Bridge while a wonder of the age was designed and built in the first quarter of the 19th century to carry the mail and horse drawn coaches to Anglesey at a time when the population was a small fraction of what it is today.

As for new Nuclear Power projects other sites such as Hartlepool and Dungeness are actively trying attract new facilities and have far better connectivity than Anglesey and fewer nimbies.

[Rillington]

The cancellation of the project at Wylfa certainly didn't help but this was an ideological decision taken on a national level to shelve/cancel all future road projects.