Oxford to Cambridge expressway

[Stevie D]

Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich? Are some towns more equal than others in Britain?

While the 'Varsity route' is a good soundbite, the need to provide an upgraded road along that corridor is less about connecting two venerable university cities than about connecting areas of major economic growth and providing a route for long-distance traffic to bypass London.

[CrackersA361]

Exactly. And if they called it the Outer London Bypass, just think of all the negativity that would attract!

[fras]

Surely if we are going to be spending much more money on roads than in the last 30 years, an expressway link between Oxford and Cambridge should be far down a priority list ? Heavens sake there is so much to do in other, more important places ! However, I suppose one could justify it on the need to connect these two places to Milton Keynes and the M1.

[roadtester]

Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich? Are some towns more equal than others in Britain?

While the 'Varsity route' is a good soundbite, the need to provide an upgraded road along that corridor is less about connecting two venerable university cities than about connecting areas of major economic growth and providing a route for long-distance traffic to bypass London.

Oxford/Cambridge v Peterborough/Norwich is a bit of a false choice because Peterborough and Norwich are on/near the arc and benefit from improvements to what for shorthand reasons we refer to as Oxford/Cambridge links anyway - both Peterborough and Norwich are both within the gravitational pull and will be well plugged in to developments since the A11 was dualled to Norwich and given A1/A14 improvements south of Peterborough.

That's not to so say that the A47 doesn't need improving too - although there's movement on that as well.

[kit]

Surely if we are going to be spending much more money on roads than in the last 30 years, an expressway link between Oxford and Cambridge should be far down a priority list ? Heavens sake there is so much to do in other, more important places ! However, I suppose one could justify it on the need to connect these two places to Milton Keynes and the M1.

If we work on some imaginary "priority list" where we can only work on the number one priority before moving onto number two, then number three we will be here all bloody day waiting for upgrades.

The point is that those wanting to travel between points between Oxford and Cambridge - be that Milton Keynes, Aylesbury, or many towns in between are currently funnelled either onto the M25 or onto S2 roads which are seldom bypassed and blight the communities they do travel through. Neither have spare capacity for the massive amount of housing slated to be constructed along this corridor over the next decades.

We either act now or do the typical British thing of hand wringing years down the line when the roads infrastructure we do have is crumbling.

[Owain]

The 'outer London bypass' reality check put forward by Stevie and Crackers makes a lot of sense. Look at how the French have used the A26, A28, A29, A19 as radials, to reduce the pressure on the hub in Paris.

[ais523]

In my opinion the corridor in question is basically just a ringway 5 (or 6 or 7 depending on how you want to number them). Long-distance traffic that goes kind-of near London but would prefer not to get mixed up with traffic going to and from London, and that goes in an approximately north-east to south-west direction, would benefit from a route to do that. Currently, M11/M25/M4 is a disastrous option for this sort of journey, going too close to London, and the motorway alternative A14/M6/M42/M5 goes too close to Birmingham. As a test, I asked Google Maps to find a route for Norwich to Bristol (specifying an off-peak time to reduce the influence of traffic). These were its two favourite of the three options it suggested.

It makes a lot of sense to find some sort of route in between. Google's remaining suggestion, the slowest of the three, is A14/A428/A421/A41/A34/A420/M4. In other words, it goes via Oxford and Cambridge. This route is considerably shorter and more direct than the others. Unfortunately, due to substandard roads, it is just as slow as the versions that go round the orbitals of major cities.

I think it's fairly likely that an upgrade of this corridor would take a substantial amount of traffic that's currently using the M25, and thus would help to solve the congestion problems in the M25's north-west quadrant (and to a lesser extent, ease congestion around Birmingham). Giving a better experience to motorists making more local journeys between Oxford, Cambridge, Milton Keynes and Bedford is just a useful side benefit IMO, rather than the main purpose of an upgrade to the corridor.

[KeithW]

The point is that those wanting to travel between points between Oxford and Cambridge - be that Milton Keynes, Aylesbury, or many towns in between are currently funnelled either onto the M25 or onto S2 roads which are seldom bypassed and blight the communities they do travel through. Neither have spare capacity for the massive amount of housing slated to be constructed along this corridor over the next decades.

Hardly. There are three major routes from Cambridge to Oxford a journey I have made MANY times usually trying to get to Oxford around 9 AM.

1) M11, M25, M40, A34 - On the days the M25 is working fine this is the fastest, the other 360 days of the year its a nightmare.

2) A428, A1, A421, A43,M40, A34 - The S2 part is usually the least troublesome. Once you have passed the kazillion roundabouts of MK its usually a decent run with most of the problems occurring on the A34 from the M40 to Oxford.

3) A14, A45 to Northampton then the A43 to the M40. Northampton is a pain in the rush hour but again the A34 from the M40 to Oxford is the usual troublespot. Since the improvement of the A43 this is my favourite route.

I cannot imagine ANY breathing human being trying to go via Aylesbury

I'm not sure how you could blight MK and in the case of Northhampton the A45 through traffic is the least of its worries. Its never taken me more than a few minutes to geth through since they sorted out the M1 underpass.

[Vierwielen]

Hardly. There are three major routes from Cambridge to Oxford a journey I have made MANY times usually trying to get to Oxford around 9 AM.

1) M11, M25, M40, A34 - On the days the M25 is working fine this is the fastest, the other 360 days of the year its a nightmare.

So the M25 work fine on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day. Which are the other two days?

[jackal]

How many times have we discussed the M25 on here and people have said 'the problem is, if you want to get from anywhere to anywhere in SE England you have to use the M25'. Now HE are actually doing something about that by completing a grade-separated route from Southampton to Felixstowe and people are still complaining! This is not just a route between two sleepy university cities, it is a major upgrade to national infrastructure.

[Owain]

This is not just a route between two sleepy university cities....

Sleepy? Have you seen the traffic in Oxford?!? Cambridge can be pretty busy too.

[jackal]

This is not just a route between two sleepy university cities....

Sleepy? Have you seen the traffic in Oxford?!? Cambridge can be pretty busy too.

Yes, several times for work. My point is that there seems to be an underestimation of the importance of this route, and my wording reflected that for ironic effect - which is admittedly an effect one should not try to achieve on the interwebs

[roadtester]

How many times have we discussed the M25 on here and people have said 'the problem is, if you want to get from anywhere to anywhere in SE England you have to use the M25'. Now HE are actually doing something about that by completing a grade-separated route from Southampton to Felixstowe and people are still complaining! This is not just a route between two sleepy university cities, it is a major upgrade to national infrastructure.

Exactly. That's why I was making the point that doing Oxford to Cambridge isn't a snub to Peterborough and Norwich. They benefit too!

[KeithW]

How many times have we discussed the M25 on here and people have said 'the problem is, if you want to get from anywhere to anywhere in SE England you have to use the M25'. Now HE are actually doing something about that by completing a grade-separated route from Southampton to Felixstowe and people are still complaining! This is not just a route between two sleepy university cities, it is a major upgrade to national infrastructure.

Exactly. That's why I was making the point that doing Oxford to Cambridge isn't a snub to Peterborough and Norwich. They benefit too!

The real point is that its NOT about Oxford to Cambridge at all, its about Felixstowe and the North to the South and West. I contend that branding it an East West Expressway would be more accurate. The reality is that with the exception of Bristol the major UK container ports are on the east coast and the majority of the traffic from them heading to the South West ends up on the M25. On several occasions last year due to M25 and A34 congestion the fastest route back from Devon or Cornwall to Cambridgeshire was to take the M5 to Bromsgrove and the M42/A45/M45/M1/A421

[c2R]

The real point is that its NOT about Oxford to Cambridge at all, its about Felixstowe and the North to the South and West. I contend that branding it an East West Expressway would be more accurate. The reality is that with the exception of Bristol the major UK container ports are on the east coast and the majority of the traffic from them heading to the South West ends up on the M25. On several occasions last year due to M25 and A34 congestion the fastest route back from Devon or Cornwall to Cambridgeshire was to take the M5 to Bromsgrove and the M42/A45/M45/M1/A421

I think it's about both of these - clearly there is a lot of demand for housing around Oxford and Cambridge, and both cities themselves are expanding with large housing developments and new business and technology parks. New dormitory settlements are being planned along the A14 already to complement existing ones such as Cambourne - so I would expect additional traffic movements to be generated by people commuting from these to Oxford, Cambridge, Milton Kenes, and Peterborough as well given the A1 study and forthcoming Huntingdon to Cambridge improvements.

Milton Keynes also is a large retail and warehousing hub - so to connect it again better to the ports and the M4 in the east west directions will support growth...

[Owain]

... my wording reflected that for ironic effect - which is admittedly an effect one should not try to achieve on the interwebs

Ah.... I think a lot of my lighthearted comments get taken as more serious than intended, too.

The reality is that with the exception of Bristol the major UK container ports are on the east coast ....

Surely Southampton fits into that category too? And it is effectively at the beginning of the proposed arc that would effectively lead to Felixstowe at the end.

[roadtester]

Milton Keynes also is a large retail and warehousing hub - so to connect it again better to the ports and the M4 in the east west directions will support growth...

Yes, good point - the size and number of logistics facilities in MK is amazing.

Also, MK is a popular place for UK headquarters of big companies - Volkswagen and Mercedes spring to mind and I think Mercedes in particular has its main parts warehouse there.

MK is already very well-connected to the north and London, mainly via the M1 but building Oxford/Cambridge would make it pretty much as as well connected to the east, south and south west as well.

[Jonathan B4027]

This isn't a new idea though is it? Im sure back in the 70s 80s there was a plan for this and it actually went as far as Swindon. All the old schemes such as the Thame bypass (which when first opened in 1981 ish had mileage signs on the Oxford side showing Swindon in brackets), Aylesbury bypass and Wing etc.. that would all eventually join up.

[si404]

The real point is that its NOT about Oxford to Cambridge at all, its about Felixstowe and the North to the South and West. I contend that branding it an East West Expressway would be more accurate.

It's certainly a reborn (Oxford-)East Coast Ports Road (going a bit further north than that original 80s vintage corridor - MK not Luton, Bedford not Stevenage, and Cambridge, not Stansted).

Getting from Oxford/Abingdon to the M4 is a bit of the problem - the bit to Swindon always seems to fall by the wayside by tradition.

Surely Southampton fits into that category too? And it is effectively at the beginning of the proposed arc that would effectively lead to Felixstowe at the end.

Though it makes zero sense to treat it as a single route! The Grande Contournment du Paris seems to exist nowhere in planning, AFAICS - it's all separate tangential routes rather than an orbital one. Unlike the Autoroute des Estuaires which, while a cobbling together of several projects, does sometimes appear as a planning concept.

[fras]

OK, I stand corrected, it is needed !
So when will work start ? On an historical basis, I'd say a minimum of 15 years before breaking ground and probably 20 years. After all the few miles of the A556 link up here near Knutsford took over 30 years. So three or four Parliaments, each one of which can cancel what the previous government authorised. The A556 link is a classic example