I've decided to turn my attention to the C Roads of York as it's a familiar place to me, and there already seems to be a list from an FOI request on the Wiki. I've set up a page with the list on it, copying another page as a template. I presume the list self-populates as I create road pages?
Feel free to change something if it isn't to standard or if I've broken something!
EDIT: I've started on a couple of roads, will try and flesh them out with photos etc. later. Probably need a quick look over by an expert to make sure they're correct. Seems like the list above self-populates, but I'm not sure if I need to create a category?
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
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ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 23:42
I've decided to turn my attention to the C Roads of York as it's a familiar place to me, and there already seems to be a list from an FOI request on the Wiki. I've set up a page with the list on it, copying another page as a template. I presume the list self-populates as I create road pages?
Feel free to change something if it isn't to standard or if I've broken something!
EDIT: I've started on a couple of roads, will try and flesh them out with photos etc. later. Probably need a quick look over by an expert to make sure they're correct. Seems like the list above self-populates, but I'm not sure if I need to create a category?
Hello,
You're nearly there with it...
I've created a template page for the bottom navbox, which currently doesn't quite populate automatically - each entry needs adding to this page: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... _III_Roads
The page also should a category for itself, just click on the redlink and type __HIDDENCAT__
These are autogenerated also and so you can copy/paste what is on the one above there. Note that if your page doesn't appear immediately on it (they're cached to save processing) you can force an update by editing and saving with no changes. But this shouldn't be necessary as it should just update by itself after a while.
Cheers
Chris
Ah excellent, thanks for that. I had a feeling that some "magic" happened in the background at times, but I'll use what you've done as a bit of a template going forwards
Must admit, it's quite interesting deciphering where all these C roads are. I didn't realise that I grew up on the C413!
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
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Taking a look at some other counties, and I noticed that the link in the FOI response from Leicestershire Council is broken - so I've put another FOI request to see if I can get another list off them. I've also put another request into Nottinghamshire (my home county) and East Yorkshire (out of curiosity given some of my North Yorks road cross the border, and they have an excellent, though sadly unnumbered map on their response). I've emphasised that I'd like information on the numbering this time, so we shall see if they come up with the goods.
No rush as I've got loads still to do in Yorkshire!
Tony Alice (they,them)
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Just looking through my emails as I've got a little bit of spare time waiting for a flight, and the three councils I sent a FOI request to have responded. I can't look at them fully right now, but Notts CC have given me a fully list of Class III roads, with numbers!
Leicestershire have given me a spreadsheet of roads, but can't tell whether there's any numbers - I thought I had an app to view spreadsheets on my phone but apparently not.
East Yorkshire is the curious one. They had a map already available showing all the C roads in the county. However they have refused my request... BUT - it is on the grounds that they are updating their maps to make the roads clickable, this will show their numbers.
I'll update the situation when I'm home, it looks like I might have the Notts roads to keep me occupied for a bit anyway!
It could be that it is worth sending a fresh FOI to some of the councils that didn't send us all the info the first time round. The originals are quite old now anyway.
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
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I've amended the page on the C Road Hunt in the Wiki - taking a look at what I got, both Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire provided me with their Class III roads and their numbers. East Yorkshire will be publishing an interactive highways map in approximately 4 months, and the numbers will be on that. I might submit a few more requests to see if I can glean a few more lists. Is there any reason why the Welsh authorities weren't asked in the original requests?
Having a look at the Notts list today, and will start tracing, being a curious local. Surprisingly few C roads in Mansfield in comparison to the rest of the county. Also I noticed that they think they have a B604 in Worksop... it's the eastern half of the B6041 really!
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
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Leicestershire is interesting with its system of 4-digit C road numbers which appear to be consistent with the system within Leicester itself. Skimming through the list, would it appear that the numbering is spiralled in a way that the further out the route is from Leicester the higher its leading digit?
Euan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 08:00
Leicestershire is interesting with its system of 4-digit C road numbers which appear to be consistent with the system within Leicester itself. Skimming through the list, would it appear that the numbering is spiralled in a way that the further out the route is from Leicester the higher its leading digit?
There seems to be some kind of logic going on, as you say they seem to spiral around, but then you'll get the 73xx series mixed in with the 83xx series, for example... almost as if they miss a few on the first rotation. You might be able to suss it out if you take a look at the traces map I created: Leicestershire_Council_(Class_III_roads)
I suspect Rutland will be the 85xx to 90xx series if we ever discover their numbers. Depends on if the system was devised when it was in Leics. Leicester City seems to have the 1xxx numbers, but their system is weird. Each time a road changes name they dish out another number for it.
Tony Alice (they,them)
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[Leicestershire Council]] uses the C classification for its Class III Roads. The council maintains a total network of 1295km/804 miles of Class III roads.
Leicestershire uses a zone system for their Class III roads in a similar way to how the A and B roads of the country are numbered. All routes have four digit numbers, and take on the following format:
ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 22:39...but their system is weird. Each time a road changes name they dish out another number for it.
Some of the Scottish councils have done this in places. I think Highland Council seemed to have some routes change number with street name changes in Inverness and Fort William, but not elsewhere. I'm sure there were others elsewhere too, but can't remember where off the top of my head.
Rob. My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
rileyrob wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 19:40
Some of the Scottish councils have done this in places. I think Highland Council seemed to have some routes change number with street name changes in Inverness and Fort William, but not elsewhere. I'm sure there were others elsewhere too, but can't remember where off the top of my head.
I wonder it's an urban thing, or that name changes in towns are more common, therefore more obvious? Mind you, York Council have single numbers for long routes, but they were created when they were under North Yorkshire.
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
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As I've completed all the roads for North Yorkshire (phew!) I've decided to make an effort to complete the whole of Yorkshire. A lot of councils are done, but there are several where we have no information or just a list without numbers. So I've done another batch of FoI requests in the style of the previous ones for Notts/Leics. I've sent requests to the following:
- Leeds, Bradford (West Yorkshire)
- Barnsley, Doncaster, Rotherham (South Yorkshire)
- Middlesbrough, Redcar & Cleveland (that bit above North Yorkshire that should be Yorkshire )
- Hull City (still awaiting the interactive map to happen for East Yorkshire)
Should get some replies back by the end of June, if they're playing nicely.
Tony Alice (they,them)
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Some excellent responses from our missing councils in the Teesside area:
Redcar & Cleveland got back to me within two weeks with a full list with Class III numbers, and also a list of U roads (not numbered). The Class IIIs have been traced and pages made, all in a single session!
Middlesbrough got back to me today - again, a full list of numbered Class III C roads. Might get chance to trace them up tonight. A nice little surprise was the discovery of the B1540 and B1541 which doesn't appear on Open Streetmap, Google Maps or any of the OS Mapping that I've checked! I might not get chance to do anything about them tonight, so maybe I'll leave everyone in suspense until I get back off holiday in a few days
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
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Ooh. I need to do an FoI for Derbyshire, but I've got enough going on at the moment - I'll clear my backlog a bit first.
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
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Nice find. Funny how they appear on temporary roadworks signage quite often.
I had a reply back from Doncaster Council, who have kindly supplied me with a list of C roads. Apparently, according to their reply, the cost of them dealing with the FoI was estimated at £50. So thank you, taxpayers of Doncaster
One observation I've made so far is that West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire appear to have a common numbering system. I knew that the West Yorkshire councils shared numbers, but I've just traced the C92 in Doncaster - it disappears over the border into North Yorkshire, only to reappear as the C92 in Wakefield! Co-incidence? Maybe... but I've put all the numbers collected so far into a spreadsheet (5 of 9 councils) and it seems very plausible as barring an odd one, they aren't repeated unless they cross a border.
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
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Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
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ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 23:27
Nice find. Funny how they appear on temporary roadworks signage quite often.
I had a reply back from Doncaster Council, who have kindly supplied me with a list of C roads. Apparently, according to their reply, the cost of them dealing with the FoI was estimated at £50. So thank you, taxpayers of Doncaster
One observation I've made so far is that West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire appear to have a common numbering system. I knew that the West Yorkshire councils shared numbers, but I've just traced the C92 in Doncaster - it disappears over the border into North Yorkshire, only to reappear as the C92 in Wakefield! Co-incidence? Maybe... but I've put all the numbers collected so far into a spreadsheet (5 of 9 councils) and it seems very plausible as barring an odd one, they aren't repeated unless they cross a border.
It would be plausible for them to have shared numbering systems. The numbering across West Yorkshire is probably inherited from the old West Yorkshire County Council, who would have allocated for the whole county as a single entity.
ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 23:27
Nice find. Funny how they appear on temporary roadworks signage quite often.
I had a reply back from Doncaster Council, who have kindly supplied me with a list of C roads. Apparently, according to their reply, the cost of them dealing with the FoI was estimated at £50. So thank you, taxpayers of Doncaster
One observation I've made so far is that West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire appear to have a common numbering system. I knew that the West Yorkshire councils shared numbers, but I've just traced the C92 in Doncaster - it disappears over the border into North Yorkshire, only to reappear as the C92 in Wakefield! Co-incidence? Maybe... but I've put all the numbers collected so far into a spreadsheet (5 of 9 councils) and it seems very plausible as barring an odd one, they aren't repeated unless they cross a border.
It would be plausible for them to have shared numbering systems. The numbering across West Yorkshire is probably inherited from the old West Yorkshire County Council, who would have allocated for the whole county as a single entity.
However Doncaster is in South Yorkshire, who you would expect to have had a separate scheme. Unless it was all inherited from the West Riding?
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It could be a West Riding thing - I'm presuming that the bits that now fall into North Yorkshire (The Ainsty, Tadcaster, Craven etc.) had roads numbered under the W.Y. system but got renumbered at some point into the North Yorkshire system. I haven't been able to figure out the logic behind their system yet...
Tony Alice (they,them)
~~~~~
Owner of a classic rust heap/money pit, and other unremarkable older vehicles.
Usually found with a head in an old map or road atlas.
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ravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 23:27
Nice find. Funny how they appear on temporary roadworks signage quite often.
I had a reply back from Doncaster Council, who have kindly supplied me with a list of C roads. Apparently, according to their reply, the cost of them dealing with the FoI was estimated at £50. So thank you, taxpayers of Doncaster
One observation I've made so far is that West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire appear to have a common numbering system. I knew that the West Yorkshire councils shared numbers, but I've just traced the C92 in Doncaster - it disappears over the border into North Yorkshire, only to reappear as the C92 in Wakefield! Co-incidence? Maybe... but I've put all the numbers collected so far into a spreadsheet (5 of 9 councils) and it seems very plausible as barring an odd one, they aren't repeated unless they cross a border.
It would be plausible for them to have shared numbering systems. The numbering across West Yorkshire is probably inherited from the old West Yorkshire County Council, who would have allocated for the whole county as a single entity.
However Doncaster is in South Yorkshire, who you would expect to have had a separate scheme. Unless it was all inherited from the West Riding?
Oh, no, sorry - I only meant that roads in WY would all at one time have been numbered by the former WYCC; South Yorkshire would probably have had its own separate system. Though it’s interesting that there may have been some coordination where roads crossed the boundary between the two.