Level crossing question

[jervi]

There's a very large and visually obvious box junction where a tram line crosses a road at-grade here, but you still get any amount of idiotic drivers stopping on the tracks and blocking the tramway.

TBH, it doesn't look very well designed, Would just be better to have the lights before the tram lines, for this current layout to work well, everyone would have to leave a gap of 8 cars in front of them, just incase the lights turn amber and car infront does stop before you can stop before the box.
For that left hand lane, there is 5.5m of space between the box and the lights, then a 38m section of box, not exactly great.

[AndyB]

There are separate lights for the tramline crossover, if you swing round. Usual problem of "Green means I must go"

[the cheesecake man]

There's a very large and visually obvious box junction where a tram line crosses a road at-grade here, but you still get any amount of idiotic drivers stopping on the tracks and blocking the tramway.

TBH, it doesn't look very well designed, Would just be better to have the lights before the tram lines, for this current layout to work well, everyone would have to leave a gap of 8 cars in front of them, just incase the lights turn amber and car infront does stop before you can stop before the box.
For that left hand lane, there is 5.5m of space between the box and the lights, then a 38m section of box, not exactly great.

It's a very badly designed pain in the bum. It wastes capacity and causes long queues up the hill while traffic waits for non-existent trams. As above it's also rubbish at keeping the road clear when the tram actually does arrive. The inner ring road is simply too busy and important to have a tram crossing. At the university roundabout the tram was sensibly given a subway and at Park Square three big ass bridges to keep it separate. At the West Street crossroads the tram crosses the road but this is achieved at the expense of minor delays to buses heading into the City Centre not by fouling up the whole ring road. Something much better was required here. Several years ago the council held a public vote on the most annoying junctions in the city. Most of the top 10 were dealt with. This one wasn't.

[jervi]

You'ld think that maybe they could put another set of lights in front of the tram crossing, which would prevent traffic from crossing or getting stuck on the crossing when a tram comes.

Several years ago the council held a public vote on the most annoying junctions in the city. Most of the top 10 were dealt with.

That is something I wish more cities did.

[lefthandedspanner]

You'ld think that maybe they could put another set of lights in front of the tram crossing, which would prevent traffic from crossing or getting stuck on the crossing when a tram comes.

There are lights in front of the crossing which turn red when a tram approaches from the city side.

[jervi]

There are lights in front of the crossing which turn red when a tram approaches from the city side.

I am either blind or an idiot.

[Big L]

There are lights in front of the crossing which turn red when a tram approaches from the city side.

I am either blind or an idiot.

These?

[jervi]

There are lights in front of the crossing which turn red when a tram approaches from the city side.

I am either blind or an idiot.

These?

Yep those ones. But if those lights were set to go red before the ones on the roundabout, it would solve the problem? wouldn't it?

[AndyB]

They probably already do...

[the cheesecake man]

You'ld think that maybe they could put another set of lights in front of the tram crossing, which would prevent traffic from crossing or getting stuck on the crossing when a tram comes.

There are lights in front of the crossing which turn red when a tram approaches from the city side.

That's the theory and if that's what actually happened the junction might work. In reality traffic queues build waiting for non-existent trams then when a tram does arrive it often has to stop at the light to wait for the traffic.

You'ld think that maybe they could put another set of lights in front of the tram crossing, which would prevent traffic from crossing or getting stuck on the crossing when a tram comes.

Several years ago the council held a public vote on the most annoying junctions in the city. Most of the top 10 were dealt with.

That is something I wish more cities did.

Ditto. While I often criticise Sheffield City Council (as do approximately 500,000 other people) this was a truly excellent idea.

Topping the poll was this busy two lane road. At the time of the vote it had recently been stupidly reduced to one lane. After the vote two lanes were promptly reinstated.

Second was these pointless traffic lights which were sensibly replaced by a pedestrian crossing.

[doebag]

Further to the original question, what is the significance/meaning of the yellow box on the departure side of the level crossing?
On the approach it is multiple crosses as in a normal YBJ.
On the departure side it is one large X within the yellow border. I cannot find any explanation in the HC or Know Your Signs.

[Bomag]

Further to the original question, what is the significance/meaning of the yellow box on the departure side of the level crossing?
On the approach it is multiple crosses as in a normal YBJ.
On the departure side it is one large X within the yellow border. I cannot find any explanation in the HC or Know Your Signs.

It's to keep the exit clear in case somebody makes a mistake and would have nowhere else to go. Was in the Traffic Sign Manual but may be missing from there 2019 version.

[doebag]

Further to the original question, what is the significance/meaning of the yellow box on the departure side of the level crossing?
On the approach it is multiple crosses as in a normal YBJ.
On the departure side it is one large X within the yellow border. I cannot find any explanation in the HC or Know Your Signs.

It's to keep the exit clear in case somebody makes a mistake and would have nowhere else to go. Was in the Traffic Sign Manual but may be missing from there 2019 version.

Yes I understand that, but what is the purpose of painting it differently to the approach side?
Is ‘just’ to differentiate between nearside and offside of the carriageway?

[Lockwood]

Saves money on paint?

[B1040]

B660 at Holme crossing could arguably need one.
Westbound traffic is often held up by folk wanting to do a right turn straight after the crossing.
Sometimes this means an additional opportunity to watch the trains go by.

[avtur]

I travel the A275 and use the Cooksbridge level crossing on a daily basis. This is a full barrier automated crossing with full yellow box markings. Over the last couple of years I've witnessed some dreadful acts of people taking chances as the barriers come down, making use of ever last second of the delay between the first and second barrier lowering to zig zag their way through.

The situation is now very much worse as there are long term term (6 months) roadworks immediately to the north of the rail crossing, these works have their own traffic lights which are not connected to the rail crossing, which means there are situations of complete conflict when the crossing is open but the road works hold the traffic, and then the crossing is activated. During the working day there are 2 marshals present to provide additional guidance to traffic, unfortunately these marshals appear to be more interested in their mobile phones than actively managing the traffic. Within the last week I have seen three occasions where drivers have found themselves restricted by the road works traffic lights to the point where their cars have been completely with the yellow box markings and in 100% danger of being hit by a train. From what I've witnessed it appears that a percentage of the driving population have no understanding of risk and little value for their own lives.

I have already made my concerns known to the water company who are operating the road works, they assure me they have faith in the traffic management company, but I'll be surprised if we get through the entire project without an incident on the crossing. Accident waiting to happen.

[fras]

I travel the A275 and use the Cooksbridge level crossing on a daily basis. This is a full barrier automated crossing with full yellow box markings. Over the last couple of years I've witnessed some dreadful acts of people taking chances as the barriers come down, making use of ever last second of the delay between the first and second barrier lowering to zig zag their way through.

The situation is now very much worse as there are long term term (6 months) roadworks immediately to the north of the rail crossing, these works have their own traffic lights which are not connected to the rail crossing, which means there are situations of complete conflict when the crossing is open but the road works hold the traffic, and then the crossing is activated. During the working day there are 2 marshals present to provide additional guidance to traffic, unfortunately these marshals appear to be more interested in their mobile phones than actively managing the traffic. Within the last week I have seen three occasions where drivers have found themselves restricted by the road works traffic lights to the point where their cars have been completely with the yellow box markings and in 100% danger of being hit by a train. From what I've witnessed it appears that a percentage of the driving population have no understanding of risk and little value for their own lives.

I have already made my concerns known to the water company who are operating the road works, they assure me they have faith in the traffic management company, but I'll be surprised if we get through the entire project without an incident on the crossing. Accident waiting to happen.

A full-barrier level crossing is not automated, but controlled by a signalman somewhere, (this could be 100 miles away !!) looking at a CCTV screen to see if the crossing is clear. Controlled crossings mean the train is controlled by signals, so only when the signalman (or woman) has pressed the button to lower the gates and they are down, can the signal be cleared to allow the train to proceed. Automatic crossings have no such checks so only have half-barriers to ensure a motorist can exit the crossing if the gate shuts behind him. Both types of crossing can be found here in Nantwich, which has two automatic half-barrier crossings and one controlled crossing by the station. Half=barrier crossings that are activated on train approach tend to be much quicker in returning the road to use. This is unlike some controlled crossings which seem to depend on the whim of the signalman, most of whom tend to be super-cautious to ensure the train is not delayed, (and them asked to explain why). So barriers are lowered far too early and sod the motorist !

[Lockwood]

The MCB-OD ones are automatic aren't they?
Just not automatic enough to be given an A- designation?

[Nathan_A_RF]

MCB = Manually Controlled Barriers, so not automatic as far as I know. MCBs are also interlocked with signals unlike automatic crossings.

[Phil]

The MCB-OD ones are automatic aren't they?

NO!

The railway is very specific about what 'Automatic' means

An 'Automatic' level crossing is one where the railways signals are NOT INTERLOCKED with the crossing. and nothing else!

In laymans terms that means the signals on all approaches to the crossing are showing a proceed (yellow, double yellow or green) to train drivers even though the barriers are up in the air with vehicles, pedestrians, etc crossing freely. The crossing is activated automatically by an approaching train ONLY.

Automatic crossings do not always come fitted with barriers (although because of misuse by motorists there has been a push to retro fit them in some places, most notably Scotland).

The other type of level crossing is called 'Manually Controlled'

These crossings are where the railway signals are interlocked with the crossing and will show a red aspect to trains unless the barriers are lowered* such that the railway becomes totally fenced off from the road plus the crossing itself proven to be clear of people / vehicles.

The 'manual control' comes in 3 forms:-

MCB = The signalman activates the crossing and monitors the lower of the barriers by looking out of the signal box window. Once the barriers are proved down then the signal controls will be released.

MCB(CCTV) = The signalman observes the crossing via CCTV during the activation and lowering process. Once they are satisfied the barriers are lowered and there is nobody trapped within the barriers they press a 'crossing clear' button. This turns off the picture in his monitor* and frees up the the other signalling controls show signals are allowed to show a proceed aspect over the crossing.

MCB(OD) The signallers actions are replaced by a Radar and LiDar system. The activation of the crossing is done by an approaching train but as it is a MCB crossing the signals protecting it stay at red until the crossing system has PROVED the barriers are fully lowered and the Radar / Lidar has PROVED there is nothing trapped on the crossing. The OD system is in fact far safer than any of the other MCB types as it cannot suffer from the 'looked but did not see' syndrome which all humans are vulnerable to. Should something be detected on the crossing by the RADAR / LiDar an alarm is raised in the signal box and the signals will be held at red until whatever the radar / LiDar has detected has been removed.


* Should the barriers not be fully lowered (no more than 5 degrees from horizontal) because someone is messing round with them or the boom proving (which says the barriers are physically there and haven't been smashed off by a car) frails then any railway signals which are shown a proceed will drop back to red.

** Signallers are paid to signal trains - not stare at level crossings. Even in a moderately busy signal box / centre there will be plenty of other things they need to concentrate on and having the picture continually visible is a distraction.