Tyne Tunnel tolls
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- Mark Hewitt
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Reports this morning of queues back to Testos. So something has gone wrong here.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Do a Severn Bridge(s) and it will smooth itself out in minutes and stay that way.
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- Mark Hewitt
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
What was that?SteveA30 wrote:Do a Severn Bridge(s) and it will smooth itself out in minutes and stay that way.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Abolish the tolls. Which of course, if they weren't there the tunnel would still be S2 as National England Agency for Highways wouldn't have been likely to have done any work on this corridor - the tunnel has driven Testos and Silverlink, not the other way around.Mark Hewitt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 17:00What was that?SteveA30 wrote:Do a Severn Bridge(s) and it will smooth itself out in minutes and stay that way.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
It definitely would be, it's privately owned the Tyne Tunnel (well technically not private) by NECA (which is the 7 North East councils around the Tyne). The tunnel is paid for on a PFI scheme paid from the tolls. The only way you could abolish it is by the £150m+ of debt off for the tunnel and I doubt anyone is too keen on that.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 18:55 Abolish the tolls. Which of course, if they weren't there the tunnel would still be S2 as National England Agency for Highways wouldn't have been likely to have done any work on this corridor - the tunnel has driven Testos and Silverlink, not the other way around.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Things like this that are tolled, the answer is to raise the tolls until the congestion disappears, OR maybe to have variable tolls based on traffic levels. Would the DART crossing be so busy if the toll was £50 at peak periods ? I don't think so.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
How much of this is the effect of traffic having to slow to filter through the old toll booths? Presumably plans are afoot to demolish the old toll plazas and just have two traffic lanes running through, at which point I would expect it to move freely.Mark Hewitt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:28 Reports this morning of queues back to Testos. So something has gone wrong here.
Chris
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- JammyDodge
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Also, people stopping at the booths that are no longer in useChris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 21:01How much of this is the effect of traffic having to slow to filter through the old toll booths? Presumably plans are afoot to demolish the old toll plazas and just have two traffic lanes running through, at which point I would expect it to move freely.Mark Hewitt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:28 Reports this morning of queues back to Testos. So something has gone wrong here.
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- Mark Hewitt
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Tyne Tunnel tolls
I think that's the main part of it. People approaching the booths for the first time, unsure exactly how to proceed. The same as we see on the open road it only takes one person to be extra hesitant and slow right down or stop then the effects ripple back and the congestion remains often for a long time after the initial slowdown has cleared.Chris5156 wrote:How much of this is the effect of traffic having to slow to filter through the old toll booths? Presumably plans are afoot to demolish the old toll plazas and just have two traffic lanes running through, at which point I would expect it to move freely.Mark Hewitt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:28 Reports this morning of queues back to Testos. So something has gone wrong here.
Even among people responding to articles about how exactly it is going to work often didn't understand "but I still have to stop at the booth right", or a lot of "Why was there only two lanes open? That's crazy". If people presented with information ahead of time still don't get it, then encountering the whole concept for the first time while making the crossing is going to be even worse.
- Mark Hewitt
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Part of me thinks they should just open the 7 lanes through the booths just so it's a more familiar setup. And then put it at two lanes once the booths have gone.
- JammyDodge
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
They can't if they want to demolish the booths during the dayMark Hewitt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 08:08 Part of me thinks they should just open the 7 lanes through the booths just so it's a more familiar setup. And then put it at two lanes once the booths have gone.
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Fine so they open 4 booths, demolish 3 and then witch traffic to the 3 free lanes while they demolish the rest. Just opening 2 was a really bad idea in my opinion.JammyDodge wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 09:26They can't if they want to demolish the booths during the dayMark Hewitt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 08:08 Part of me thinks they should just open the 7 lanes through the booths just so it's a more familiar setup. And then put it at two lanes once the booths have gone.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
When the new 70mph Queensferry Crossing opened to replace the 50mph Forth Bridge, it was incredible how many people still drove at 50mph out of a kind of 'muscle memory' for a long time after. I still think a bit of it goes on but of course that's probably confirmation bias. At some point you just have to accept that roads are driven on by fallible creatures of habit and wait it out, rather than throwing money and resources at yet more signage or nagging or processes to 'help' them do the right thing a week earlier.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Well traffic seems to be moving better today. It seems they now have removed the booths.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... first-day/
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/no ... s-22098813
'
There are reportedly problems with the TT iphone app.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... first-day/
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/no ... s-22098813
'
There are reportedly problems with the TT iphone app.
- Mark Hewitt
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
I think that is confused reporting. AFAIK the booths are still there just with barriers open. It is that IMO that has been the main issue. Reading those stories seems lots of instances of people stopping at the booth unsure what to do. Anyone stopping on a busy D2 even for a second is going to cause chaos.KeithW wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:02 Well traffic seems to be moving better today. It seems they now have removed the booths.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... first-day/
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/no ... s-22098813
'
There are reportedly problems with the TT iphone app.
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Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Such a system could also be integrated with the Congestion Charge system as well. An alternative to having the government do this is to have the private sector do it and to use the ATM network for payment in the same way that you can top up your mobile phone at an ATM. All that you will need to do is to enter your car reg number. I don't think that much chivvy up will be needed, the central operator already has most of the hardware infrastructure in place and they will charge the operators a commission for processing the payment.fras wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:36Indeed it isn't ! In simple terms a central charging server would be set up with either a log-on screen with choice of bridge/crossings for paying, or a mobile phone app that has an either auto-pay or manual payment option. Each bridge operator, when a vehicle is detected, would send a simple message to this server requesting payment for the reg number that has passed over the crossing. THe central server would initially respond confirming the vehicle is on an account or not, request the toll and when paid, pass it into the bank account of the crossing operator, together with a 'payment received' message. This is obviously only a broad outline. Also government would no doubt have to chivvy the crossing operators to contribute in setting up the system. I would have thought it would allow them to save money in operating the tolling system. I recently set up my Merseyflow app on my phone, and invoked 'Autopay' and it works brilliantly. I got a message re a payment whilst I was still on the way home !Bryn666 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:06It is still not beyond the wit of man to have a single gov.uk payment page which has a drop down menu to allow you to pay the relevant toll though.KeithW wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 09:45
Well for one thing they have different owners in different countries. Lets look at some examples.
The Tyne Tunnel is owned by the North East Combined Authority and operated by a concessionaire https://www.tt2.co.uk/
The Dartford Crossing is owned by the Department for Transport and operated by Highways England.
The Forth Crossing is owned by the Scottish Government and operated by Highways Scotland.
The Severn Crossings are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
Then of course the LEZ and Congestion Charge are under the control of Transport for London.
There you have it - devolution in action.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Raising the tolls would probably mean long distance traffic would be more tempted to use the A1 over the A19. The Tyne Tunnel and A19 act as an alternative route for long distance traffic going north to south and south to north, and with the second tunnel and the reconstruction of the Silverlink and Testos roundabouts has made it more attractive.
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
Thus building pressure for more widespread road charging - which is why these demand-based tolls are so heavily opposed in some quarters. (I think that's inevitable and probably sensible, but we're maybe not quite there yet.)
Re: Tyne Tunnel tolls
I suspect building opposition to more widespread road charging is more likely. UK drivers don't like road charging - see M6 Toll as an example. They rather take the view that between VAT, fuel excise duty and annual road tax they are already paying through the nose. The Blair government proposed this in 2005 and it proved to so politically toxic the idea was quietly dropped. Now the loss of fuel excise revenues may force some such system but I have to say some of the proposed schemes which include mandatory GPS traffic monitoring systems which can automatically debit a card or bank account extremely troubling. They already do this Singapore BUT the flip side there is the State also provides an excellent pubic transport system. Worse al least one pundit has suggested variable charges which would increase as congestion rises. So not only is Big Brother tracking you every movement but charging you more for the privilege if the road is inadequate - no thanks.
The usual caveat applies - Be careful what you ask for - you just might get it !