M6 J10 Improvements

[Ruperts Trooper]

^ You're right, that's just my assumption, and I may be wrong.

Even in AU, a government could continue to toll after franchise expiry, but generally they don't. A government could slap a toll on any of its roads whenever it likes, but they don't because there are elections to consider. The UK, unlike AU, doesn't toll roads (historical oddities aside) except for major structures across estuaries. M6Toll is a one-off, and is not well-liked. Hence my assumption.

Many thought the Dartford Crossing would become toll-free when the initial period ended but the toll remains, albeit under a different name - quite possibly the same logic will be used by the government of the day to keep charges on the M6T.

[jackal]

^ You're right, that's just my assumption, and I may be wrong.

Even in AU, a government could continue to toll after franchise expiry, but generally they don't. A government could slap a toll on any of its roads whenever it likes, but they don't because there are elections to consider. The UK, unlike AU, doesn't toll roads (historical oddities aside) except for major structures across estuaries. M6Toll is a one-off, and is not well-liked. Hence my assumption.

Many thought the Dartford Crossing would become toll-free when the initial period ended but the toll remains, albeit under a different name - quite possibly the same logic will be used by the government of the day to keep charges on the M6T.

This is quite a different situation though. As I've mentioned before, tolls are generally economically inefficient, as they tend to push traffic onto less appropriate routes (e.g. shunpiking M6T or Seven Crossing when tolled), but the Dartford toll is efficient as it allocates limited space to higher value or essential uses.

[Mapper89062]

If the tolls were removed from the M6 Toll, then I don't think relief to the M6 would be that great, simply because there's not much traffic that actually wants to bypass the West Midlands area. Instead, what would happen is that suppressed demand for local journeys will be released (some new demand, some shifted over from the A5, A38 and other parallel roads.)

This is part of the reason for all the tolls that are being used in countries still building big roads, and if you want to make sure strategic journeys don't ignore the toll roads you need to either a) place them such that there is no sensible free route, like at Dartford, or b) price them to make them work out good value for longer journeys but very expensive for shorter commutes and suchlike.

[Truvelo]

The amount of shunpiking traffic using the A5 and A38 shows how ineffective the M6 Toll is. If motorists are prepared to sit in solid traffic like this all the way from Weeford Island to Wall Island then it shows they would rather burn money on idling engines than pay the toll.

Regarding the congestion at J10 the M6 Toll doesn't really come into play. None of the traffic using the roundabout would benefit from the removal of the tolls as the M6 Toll would not be a route this traffic would use.

[DanT97]

The amount of shunpiking traffic using the A5 and A38 shows how ineffective the M6 Toll is. If motorists are prepared to sit in solid traffic like this all the way from Weeford Island to Wall Island then it shows they would rather burn money on idling engines than pay the toll.

Regarding the congestion at J10 the M6 Toll doesn't really come into play. None of the traffic using the roundabout would benefit from the removal of the tolls as the M6 Toll would not be a route this traffic would use.

The only decent solution here would be to try and manipulate Brummies into using public transport more frequently. “Stop using thy cars” I would say, “then ye shalt be blessed with the gift of open lanes”.

[Steven]

The amount of shunpiking traffic using the A5 and A38 shows how ineffective the M6 Toll is. If motorists are prepared to sit in solid traffic like this all the way from Weeford Island to Wall Island then it shows they would rather burn money on idling engines than pay the toll.

Regarding the congestion at J10 the M6 Toll doesn't really come into play. None of the traffic using the roundabout would benefit from the removal of the tolls as the M6 Toll would not be a route this traffic would use.

The only decent solution here would be to try and manipulate Brummies into using public transport more frequently. “Stop using thy cars” I would say, “then ye shalt be blessed with the gift of open lanes”.

How would getting Brummies to use public transport more frequently help a junction well outside Birmingham's sphere of influence?

[KILLER KNIGHT]

Look I'm just happy that something has been improved. They could plausibly have made it a tiny dumbbell instead...

The original proposals in the 1950s was just that.

[Berk]

The amount of shunpiking traffic using the A5 and A38 shows how ineffective the M6 Toll is. If motorists are prepared to sit in solid traffic like this all the way from Weeford Island to Wall Island then it shows they would rather burn money on idling engines than pay the toll.

If it’s getting close to the toll they would need to pay, where’s the sense in that??

Behaviour like that is wilful - if it’s going to cost you (near enough) the same, but you still refuse to pay on principle.

How would getting Brummies to use public transport more frequently help a junction well outside Birmingham's sphere of influence?

Blame Walsall??

[M42_J10]

The amount of shunpiking traffic using the A5 and A38 shows how ineffective the M6 Toll is. If motorists are prepared to sit in solid traffic like this all the way from Weeford Island to Wall Island then it shows they would rather burn money on idling engines than pay the toll.

Regarding the congestion at J10 the M6 Toll doesn't really come into play. None of the traffic using the roundabout would benefit from the removal of the tolls as the M6 Toll would not be a route this traffic would use.

The only decent solution here would be to try and manipulate Brummies into using public transport more frequently. “Stop using thy cars” I would say, “then ye shalt be blessed with the gift of open lanes”.

I could relieve M6 J10 by Just Getting The Tram to work instead of driving but this would take 1h30m instead of 40m

[ForestChav]

The amount of shunpiking traffic using the A5 and A38 shows how ineffective the M6 Toll is. If motorists are prepared to sit in solid traffic like this all the way from Weeford Island to Wall Island then it shows they would rather burn money on idling engines than pay the toll.

If it’s getting close to the toll they would need to pay, where’s the sense in that??

Behaviour like that is wilful - if it’s going to cost you (near enough) the same, but you still refuse to pay on principle.

How would getting Brummies to use public transport more frequently help a junction well outside Birmingham's sphere of influence?

Blame Walsall??

I think there could be a fair amount of people who would simply just not want to pay the toll on principle and would sit on any free road to make the same journey no matter how congested it is.

It's certainly an argument in this case, for them to have made the current toll road free, for the long distance traffic, but put the tolls on the old M6 through Birmingham between M5 and M42, which would act as a deterrent - but with the obvious issues of then charging local traffic (unless they use the A452 instead, for example) and also whether it would be possible easily to toll a previously free road...

[Truvelo]

The M6 southbound onslip has been reduced to a single lane for about a week now and the hard shoulder coned off between J10 and J9. This causes traffic to back up and lock the eastern side of the roundabout. Traffic from the Black Country Route heading to the M6 south blocks traffic from the north heading to the Black Country Route. It's not helped by the driver of the white lorry on the left who leave at J10 and then go up and down to rejoin the M6 rather that sit in the queue on the M6 below.

[ReissOmari]

The permanent traffic signals have finally been fully installed and turned on! Not sure what it's like around the rest of the country, but the West Midlands seem to hate installing mast arm signals which would have been much more beneficial here considering the amount of lanes.

If I'm not wrong, these were the last mast arm signals I recall in going up in the Birmingham area anyway over 15 years ago.

[Bryn666]

The permanent traffic signals have finally been fully installed and turned on! Not sure what it's like around the rest of the country, but the West Midlands seem to hate installing mast arm signals which would have been much more beneficial here considering the amount of lanes.

If I'm not wrong, these were the last mast arm signals I recall in going up in the Birmingham area anyway over 15 years ago.

Considering the number of gantry structures installed I'm surprised overhead signals weren't installed on those - you can see a good example of this at M65 J6, which locals now call the Whitebirk Grand Prix:

https://goo.gl/maps/GdThavFWpybuGr657

[M42_J10]

Obviously now I've finished working around there and stopped using J10 to commute, they'll probably finish the roadworks within days

[Ruperts Trooper]

Obviously now I've finished working around there and stopped using J10 to commute, they'll probably finish the roadworks within days

It's always been like that - when I commuted from Tamworth to Birmingham they were building the M42 from J9-J10, then when I commuted from Tamworth to Derby they were building the A42 !

[KILLER KNIGHT]

The permanent traffic signals have finally been fully installed and turned on! Not sure what it's like around the rest of the country, but the West Midlands seem to hate installing mast arm signals which would have been much more beneficial here considering the amount of lanes.

If I'm not wrong, these were the last mast arm signals I recall in going up in the Birmingham area anyway over 15 years ago.

Stoke-on-Trent loves those!

[KILLER KNIGHT]

Obviously now I've finished working around there and stopped using J10 to commute, they'll probably finish the roadworks within days

It's always been like that - when I commuted from Tamworth to Birmingham they were building the M42 from J9-J10, then when I commuted from Tamworth to Derby they were building the A42 !

LOL that’s so sad! Had they built the original M42 as intended, you wouldn’t have had to go through the trouble of them building the A42!

[KeithW]

LOL that’s so sad! Had they built the original M42 as intended, you wouldn’t have had to go through the trouble of them building the A42!

The first section of the M42 was a simple link road from the M6 to Birmingham Airport and the NEC. It opened in the mid 70's when money was really tight after the 1970's depression and it was 1985 before it went any farther. Even so you got the A42 because they ran out of money before reaching the M1 !

Let me remind you of the interest rate in 1986, it was pushing 8% and that was low by the standards of the time.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Obviously now I've finished working around there and stopped using J10 to commute, they'll probably finish the roadworks within days

It's always been like that - when I commuted from Tamworth to Birmingham they were building the M42 from J9-J10, then when I commuted from Tamworth to Derby they were building the A42 !

LOL that’s so sad! Had they built the original M42 as intended, you wouldn’t have had to go through the trouble of them building the A42!

I suspect that if the A42 had been built to motorway standard north of junction 11, it would still have been phased later than the southern stretches.

Since the M42 is only 2 lane north of junction 9, there's little difference in practice between that section of M42 and the A42.

[jackal]

£78m motorway scheme 'makes no difference'

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cxrwqrqd72do