Why does the M6 turn into the M74 in Scotland?

[MotorwayGuy]

Sometimes the Ax(M) numbering makes sense, like with the A1(M) where you have multiple sections of motorway seperated by all-purpose road. It wouldn't be so confusing if M1 was available but it isn't and so would have to have a M1x number. As the A74 wasn't upgraded all at the same time, I'm guessing this is why they went with A74(M) instead of M74 because it was assumed it would be renumbered anyway. A lot of people seem to refer to it as the M74 anyway. In England and Wales the original road usually gets renumbered (For some reason the A3 at Waterlooville wasn't renumbered when the A3(M) was built though).

[jabbaboy]

Just curious, seen a lot of mention about the M6/M74, but is there any reason why the road is the A74(M) and just not the M74 throughout from the start? I understand it wouldn't have been connected, but nor were the M8 or M80 until very recently either.

[Steven]

Just curious, seen a lot of mention about the M6/M74, but is there any reason why the road is the A74(M) and just not the M74 throughout from the start? I understand it wouldn't have been connected, but nor were the M8 or M80 until very recently either.

Because it was built as a lot of small sections, it used the "small bypasses" style of numbering otherwise not really seen since the 1970s. Remember that it was planned to end up as M6 rather than M74.

[wrinkly]

See the wiki page "M74 and A74(M) History" (admission: I wrote a lot of it):

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... M)_History

[jabbaboy]

Just curious, seen a lot of mention about the M6/M74, but is there any reason why the road is the A74(M) and just not the M74 throughout from the start? I understand it wouldn't have been connected, but nor were the M8 or M80 until very recently either.

Because it was built as a lot of small sections, it used the "small bypasses" style of numbering otherwise not really seen since the 1970s. Remember that it was planned to end up as M6 rather than M74.

Thanks for that, totally forgot about the M6 renumbering plans, just went over my head.

[wrinkly]

Only from about 1992 was there a plan to renumber it as M6.

[Nwallace]

A Lang era power trip?

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[wrinkly]

A Lang era power trip?

Not sure why you'd describe it as a "power trip" - just common sense. And it continued through Dewar's period as SoS, then died out when the Scottish parliament came.

[Bryn666]

Only from about 1992 was there a plan to renumber it as M6.

I've got maps from 1992/93 showing the Gretna bypass as M74 - and don't forget there used to be M74 chopsticks signs leaving Gretna services too.

This adds another layer of mystery to it all.

[KeithW]

Only from about 1992 was there a plan to renumber it as M6.

I've got maps from 1992/93 showing the Gretna bypass as M74 - and don't forget there used to be M74 chopsticks signs leaving Gretna services too.

This adds another layer of mystery to it all.

Possibly because before 1999 the Scottish Government did not exist ! The A74(M) followed the old A74 (now B7076) pretty closely. In any case I found this on roads.org

At its southern end (or, strictly, the southern end of the A74(M)), the route is a continuous motorway right down to the M1 at Rugby, thanks to the M6. When the Scottish part of the motorway was built, the new signs were manufactured with "A74(M)" and "M74" on stuck-on plates, and it is known that if these were removed it would read "M6" underneath. Originally it was proposed that it would be renumbered once the motorway was connected to the M6, but the two were linked in 2008 and no change in number ever happened. The Scottish Government are now very evasive about the whole issue, not actually ruling out the idea of ever extending the M6 into Scotland, but certainly making it clear that there's no current plan to do it.

[wrinkly]

In any case I found this on roads.org

There's a much fuller account on the Sabre wiki page I linked above.

[jackal]

It was really just a dire decision to use A74(M) in the 90s. I suppose it was feared that using M74 would preclude renaming to M6 - an incoherent objection given the existing M74 would need renaming under any such plan.

[Mapper89062]

Although it was England and not Scotland doing the numbering, the same style of numbering was used around the same time for the A1(M) Peterborough-Alconbury and Boroughbridge sections. These were done with the intention of eventually being part of a continuous motorway route numbered M100, and were numbered in the interim as A1(M) to avoid the number changing numerous times across the route.

[Bryn666]

Only from about 1992 was there a plan to renumber it as M6.

I've got maps from 1992/93 showing the Gretna bypass as M74 - and don't forget there used to be M74 chopsticks signs leaving Gretna services too.

This adds another layer of mystery to it all.

Possibly because before 1999 the Scottish Government did not exist ! The A74(M) followed the old A74 (now B7076) pretty closely. In any case I found this on roads.org

At its southern end (or, strictly, the southern end of the A74(M)), the route is a continuous motorway right down to the M1 at Rugby, thanks to the M6. When the Scottish part of the motorway was built, the new signs were manufactured with "A74(M)" and "M74" on stuck-on plates, and it is known that if these were removed it would read "M6" underneath. Originally it was proposed that it would be renumbered once the motorway was connected to the M6, but the two were linked in 2008 and no change in number ever happened. The Scottish Government are now very evasive about the whole issue, not actually ruling out the idea of ever extending the M6 into Scotland, but certainly making it clear that there's no current plan to do it.

That doesn't explain why there are maps (and signs) that referred to the oldest section of what is now the A74(M) as M74, which is the question I asked.

I am very familiar with why the rest of it has been called A74(M), I want to know an answer to this specific question regarding the Gretna Bypass.

[Nwallace]

A Lang era power trip?

Not sure why you'd describe it as a "power trip" - just common sense. And it continued through Dewar's period as SoS, then died out when the Scottish parliament came.

Ian Lang was responsible for a significant transfer of power from councils to the Scottish Office, plus a good bunch of other moves.

It's the sort of thing he would dictate.

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[wrinkly]

That doesn't explain why there are maps (and signs) that referred to the oldest section of what is now the A74(M) as M74, which is the question I asked.

The whole project in Scotland appears to have been known solely as M74 until about a year before the Gretna bypass opened.

[Monroads]

Though there's also the fact that, going north, SCOTLAND is signed from each of Js 40-43 and 45, but going south, England is only signed at the last exit before the border.

Carlisle is signed pretty heavily from all over the central belt though in lieu of England

[Monroads]

The concession operating company for the M74/A74(m) is called Autolink (M6) fwiw

[wrinkly]

The concession operating company for the M74/A74(m) is called Autolink (M6) fwiw

Yes. The contract was awarded in 1996 and included building the motorway from south of J14 to J16, and maintaining from J12 to the English border for 30 years.

[Glenn A]

I like this motorway as it has the urban section through Glasgow, which is quite spectacular, the original M74 through Lanarkshire, then the rural section where the motorway reaches 1400 feet in places, and the long downhill into England. Also, except during school holidays and when you can get lorries bunched together on the uphill sections, it's a great drive for most of the way.