Unique Traffic Signals

[traffic-light-man]

Button for horse riders to extend the green time at this junction
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3978991 ... ?entry=ttu

No instructions, but there are four sets of those here. Not only do they extend the green time, they also extend the subsequent all red.

There's another similar arrangement here, with a bonus Pegasus signal head for the opposite direction.

[ReissOmari]

Anyone know why there's 2 stop lines and 2 sets of lights here? The second stop line don't have louvred hoods so assume they'd change at the same time? I'm not too sure. It's can't be down to cyclist either as they have their own signals at the junction too.

[Nathan_A_RF]

Is it so that vehicles exiting the driveway on the left can get into the correct lane? Otherwise it's contesting three lanes of traffic or all three lanes are blocked by waiting traffic at a red light.

[traffic-light-man]

Anyone know why there's 2 stop lines and 2 sets of lights here? The second stop line don't have louvred hoods so assume they'd change at the same time? I'm not too sure. It's can't be down to cyclist either as they have their own signals at the junction too.

Looking back on GSV, it's had the same arrangement since at least 2009, so I agree it's not something to do with the cycles. I'm inclined to say it's to do with the bend on the approach, but the egress from Kwik Fit requires the second stop line.

If you look at this approach, the stop line is set right back to a similar place, presumably for the same reason. This one doesn't need the second stop line because there's no accesses in between the stop line and the conflict point.

Purely a guess, though!

[ReissOmari]

Is it so that vehicles exiting the driveway on the left can get into the correct lane? Otherwise it's contesting three lanes of traffic or all three lanes are blocked by waiting traffic at a red light.

That was my first thought but seems a bit overkill!

Anyone know why there's 2 stop lines and 2 sets of lights here? The second stop line don't have louvred hoods so assume they'd change at the same time? I'm not too sure. It's can't be down to cyclist either as they have their own signals at the junction too.

Looking back on GSV, it's had the same arrangement since at least 2009, so I agree it's not something to do with the cycles. I'm inclined to say it's to do with the bend on the approach, but the egress from Kwik Fit requires the second stop line.

If you look at this approach, the stop line is set right back to a similar place, presumably for the same reason. This one doesn't need the second stop line because there's no accesses in between the stop line and the conflict point.

Purely a guess, though!

If you swap to the other side of the road, you can see the configuration from 2008 which was mellors!, so I'd hazard a guess it's been like this for a while! They were both on green when I went though so didn't get to see if there's a second phase or if they all change together, as the first stop line don't have any secondary lights.

Not sure when I'll be back in Bradford now to see lol

[traffic-light-man]

They could change together, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was a small phase delay between the first and second stop lines (probably offsetting the ambers by 3 seconds would do it) when terminating that stage, just to let traffic clear through. If they lose green together, I think it would undermine the purpose, whether that be for better visibility or for egress from Kwik Fit!

Assuming it is about visibility and it does have a phase delay, the side effect is then that egress from Kwik Fit is catered for in any case, like Nathan mentioned.

[Skipsy]

This T-junction has a right turn filter rather than the expected left turn filter.
Additionally there is a left turn filter which always immediately activates when the lights turn red, because the left turn faces no conflicts. But this means there is always a split second when the lights turn red where you have to stop, only to be able to turn left after a second anyway...

[traffic-light-man]

This T-junction has a right turn filter rather than the expected left turn filter.

One of those here, too - it only runs in the pedestrian stage and is a bit old hat now. It also used to have bonus Pilkington fibre optic arrows, but they've both been replaced in more recent years. I suspect this one will disappear in the near future, it's one of the oldest sites left on the LHA's books and their refurbishments of junctions like this are usually full remodels.

There used to be the same arrangement here, but that one has since bitten the dust in a remodel.

[ReissOmari]

This T-junction has a right turn filter rather than the expected left turn filter.

One of those here, too - it only runs in the pedestrian stage and is a bit old hat now. It also used to have bonus Pilkington fibre optic arrows, but they've both been replaced in more recent years. I suspect this one will disappear in the near future, it's one of the oldest sites left on the LHA's books and their refurbishments of junctions like this are usually full remodels.

There used to be the same arrangement here, but that one has since bitten the dust in a remodel.

Is there really any need for the signalised left turn? Surely a give way would make more sense as there's no conflicting traffic when they are on red, but when on green there's conflicting traffic coming from the right!? Also I assume it's just connected to the ahead phase meaning when the filter arrow is on from Dunriding Lane, they'll still be red. Also interesting to see there isn't a secondary signal for the left turn either, quite a botch that.

[wallmeerkat]

I've noticed at some point the left turn filter here https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5463493 ... ?entry=ttu has changed such that when oncoming traffic is turning right (across us - the white Fiat and red van) it turns red (even without pedestrians).

The road itself takes both lanes and makes a 2 lane one way road for a short distance, so it never used to, and indeed when the junction from the right (pink bus, doesn't use the P+R, will turn right here) is green, the left turn is still green.

My theory is that it is to try and clear the left lane to allow buses turning to access the Park and Ride to the left, otherwise buses have to stop, indicate, and wait for a gap in traffic.

[MotorwayGuy]

I've noticed at some point the left turn filter here https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5463493 ... ?entry=ttu has changed such that when oncoming traffic is turning right (across us - the white Fiat and red van) it turns red (even without pedestrians).

The road itself takes both lanes and makes a 2 lane one way road for a short distance, so it never used to, and indeed when the junction from the right (pink bus, doesn't use the P+R, will turn right here) is green, the left turn is still green.

My theory is that it is to try and clear the left lane to allow buses turning to access the Park and Ride to the left, otherwise buses have to stop, indicate, and wait for a gap in traffic.

This junction nearby seems a bit dodgy as well. You're clearly not supposed to turn right here, but there's no ahead only or no right turn roundels to be found. When the signals are red, the only indication is the faded arrow markings on the ground.

[wallmeerkat]

I've noticed at some point the left turn filter here https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5463493 ... ?entry=ttu has changed such that when oncoming traffic is turning right (across us - the white Fiat and red van) it turns red (even without pedestrians).

The road itself takes both lanes and makes a 2 lane one way road for a short distance, so it never used to, and indeed when the junction from the right (pink bus, doesn't use the P+R, will turn right here) is green, the left turn is still green.

My theory is that it is to try and clear the left lane to allow buses turning to access the Park and Ride to the left, otherwise buses have to stop, indicate, and wait for a gap in traffic.

This junction nearby seems a bit dodgy as well. You're clearly not supposed to turn right here, but there's no ahead only or no right turn roundels to be found. When the signals are red, the only indication is the faded arrow markings on the ground.

Good point! When I used the P+R for a few years I saw the occasional car turn right here, usually moving into the central area and using that as a right turn refuge, usually waiting for the lights to turn red to stop traffic. But you are really meant to turn right the junction before, and then immediately left (which again is why I think the citybound left has a red light to allow traffic including the buses to turn left into the P+R)

[the cheesecake man]

Left and right lanes with stop lines in different places.

[Jonathan24]

I've noticed at some point the left turn filter here https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5463493 ... ?entry=ttu has changed such that when oncoming traffic is turning right (across us - the white Fiat and red van) it turns red (even without pedestrians).

The road itself takes both lanes and makes a 2 lane one way road for a short distance, so it never used to, and indeed when the junction from the right (pink bus, doesn't use the P+R, will turn right here) is green, the left turn is still green.

My theory is that it is to try and clear the left lane to allow buses turning to access the Park and Ride to the left, otherwise buses have to stop, indicate, and wait for a gap in traffic.

To me, it would have made more sense for the lights to turn red when the traffic from the direction of the bus (Cairnshill Road) was on green. The volume of traffic coming from Cairnshill Road in the morning is high, most of which then wants to move into the left lane and in the absence of a red light, means it very quickly backs out onto the main road.

[traffic-light-man]

Is there really any need for the signalised left turn? Surely a give way would make more sense as there's no conflicting traffic when they are on red, but when on green there's conflicting traffic coming from the right!? Also I assume it's just connected to the ahead phase meaning when the filter arrow is on from Dunriding Lane, they'll still be red. Also interesting to see there isn't a secondary signal for the left turn either, quite a botch that.

Yes, the lantern on the nearside of the left turn slip is the same phase as the ahead - probably one of the reasons there isn't a dedicated secondary. It's a fairly normal layout in my mind, particularly locally and I've never really given it much thought other than it definitely being old fashioned by today's standards.

I can't imagine you'll get any new examples of this arrangement, though this sort of layout is also a bit of a relic in general, particularly in an urban environment. I think it definitely pre-dates the Mellor era.

There's some other examples here, here, here, here, here and here. Granted, most of those are not T-junctions, but the left turn layouts are the same - I'm sure more will spring to mind.

I've noticed at some point the left turn filter here...

There's an odd additional ahead aspect mounted to the RAG here as well - seems a bit odd, though not necessarily 'wrong'.

[Craig91]

Is there really any need for the signalised left turn? Surely a give way would make more sense as there's no conflicting traffic when they are on red, but when on green there's conflicting traffic coming from the right!? Also I assume it's just connected to the ahead phase meaning when the filter arrow is on from Dunriding Lane, they'll still be red. Also interesting to see there isn't a secondary signal for the left turn either, quite a botch that.

Yes, the lantern on the nearside of the left turn slip is the same phase as the ahead - probably one of the reasons there isn't a dedicated secondary. It's a fairly normal layout in my mind, particularly locally and I've never really given it much thought other than it definitely being old fashioned by today's standards.

I can't imagine you'll get any new examples of this arrangement, though this sort of layout is also a bit of a relic in general, particularly in an urban environment. I think it definitely pre-dates the Mellor era.

There's some other examples here, here, here, here, here and here. Granted, most of those are not T-junctions, but the left turn layouts are the same - I'm sure more will spring to mind.

Another here on both sides of the carriageway.

[MotorwayGuy]

Is there really any need for the signalised left turn? Surely a give way would make more sense as there's no conflicting traffic when they are on red, but when on green there's conflicting traffic coming from the right!? Also I assume it's just connected to the ahead phase meaning when the filter arrow is on from Dunriding Lane, they'll still be red. Also interesting to see there isn't a secondary signal for the left turn either, quite a botch that.

Yes, the lantern on the nearside of the left turn slip is the same phase as the ahead - probably one of the reasons there isn't a dedicated secondary. It's a fairly normal layout in my mind, particularly locally and I've never really given it much thought other than it definitely being old fashioned by today's standards.

I can't imagine you'll get any new examples of this arrangement, though this sort of layout is also a bit of a relic in general, particularly in an urban environment. I think it definitely pre-dates the Mellor era.

There's some other examples here, here, here, here, here and here. Granted, most of those are not T-junctions, but the left turn layouts are the same - I'm sure more will spring to mind.

Another here on both sides of the carriageway.

That whole junction is somewhat of a relic from the past. Complete lack of pedestrian facilities and no give way markings for conflicting movements on the left turns. Also the placement of the 30 signs here mean it isn't signed when turning left, the other direction only has one 40 sign behind the signal head and this ancient repeater facing the junction.

[traffic-light-man]

That whole junction is somewhat of a relic from the past.

That was the site of the penultimate set of 'Tin' signals to be removed from service at the end of the '90s and the Mellors replaced them almost like-for-like.

[Craig91]

That whole junction is somewhat of a relic from the past.

That was the site of the penultimate set of 'Tin' signals to be removed from service at the end of the '90s and the Mellors replaced them almost like-for-like.

I didn’t know that - I just thought the junction at Yewtree Road was the last Tin signals. Are there photographs anywhere?

[traffic-light-man]

That whole junction is somewhat of a relic from the past.

That was the site of the penultimate set of 'Tin' signals to be removed from service at the end of the '90s and the Mellors replaced them almost like-for-like.

I didn’t know that - I just thought the junction at Yewtree Road was the last Tin signals. Are there photographs anywhere?

Yes, Yewtree was the last set, removed in 2001 and replaced with Microsense MSH signals. Unlike Woolton Road, there were a few more changes made there, they gained some indicative arrows and there were some additional poles and lanterns installed.

They were likely to have been some of the last Tins to be installed, too, as they featured plastic lenses and no "STOP" lettering on the red lenses, though they were otherwise wearing the standard '60s attire.

By the time they were removed, the pedestrian equipment and poles for those had already been replaced with Mellors, as had the lanterns and poles for the southbound approach.

There were some great slide photographs kicking around that SABRE member A303Paul (IIRC) uploaded, having photographed them in the '90s before the aforementioned Mellors went in, along with the last surviving set of SGEs on Rewley Road in Oxford. Looking at the member list, they're no longer a member and the gallery where the photos were is unfortunately empty.