M5 Junctions 1 to 2 Air Quality - Speed Limit Statutory Instrument Consultation

[Steven]

Call me controversial, but I think that the M6 between J3A and J11A, M5 between the M6 and J4A and A38(M) should be tolled and/or subject to an expanded (ultra) low emission zone. Of course, the M6 Toll should be untolled, but I fear that traffic levels on the M42 would rise to unacceptable levels, so a Western Orbital might be needed in this scenario, though it isn't necessary. Also, a discount should be offered to residents as it'd be unfair to deprive them of their access to the motorway network.

Congratulations! Your proposal has just caused serious damage to the economy of the West Midlands conurbation!

In addition to this, the public transport network in Birmingham should be expanded (trams, buses, etc) to provide viable, low-cost alternatives to road transportation in the city.

And what about the other major city which your proposal will seriously effect?

And of course, then there's the Black Country as well, for whom public transport is already terrible, and which has no real discernable major centres to help improve PT in the area, but instead lots of small towns each of which have some gravity of their own, in other words, a true conurbation.

So not only has your proposal ruined the economy of the area, it's also not offered mitigation for the majority of the people in the affected area - there are more who do not live in Birmingham or even in Birmingham's functional or economic area than those that do.

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

Call me controversial, but I think that the M6 between J3A and J11A, M5 between the M6 and J4A and A38(M) should be tolled and/or subject to an expanded (ultra) low emission zone. Of course, the M6 Toll should be untolled, but I fear that traffic levels on the M42 would rise to unacceptable levels, so a Western Orbital might be needed in this scenario, though it isn't necessary. Also, a discount should be offered to residents as it'd be unfair to deprive them of their access to the motorway network.

Congratulations! Your proposal has just caused serious damage to the economy of the West Midlands conurbation!

In addition to this, the public transport network in Birmingham should be expanded (trams, buses, etc) to provide viable, low-cost alternatives to road transportation in the city.

And what about the other major city which your proposal will seriously effect?

And of course, then there's the Black Country as well, for whom public transport is already terrible, and which has no real discernable major centres to help improve PT in the area, but instead lots of small towns each of which have some gravity of their own, in other words, a true conurbation.

So not only has your proposal ruined the economy of the area, it's also not offered mitigation for the majority of the people in the affected area - there are more who do not live in Birmingham or even in Birmingham's functional or economic area than those that do.

I'm sorry if I didn't make this clear, but I was referring to Wolverhampton, the Black Country and all of the surrounding conurbation in my OP - I should've made it more explicit, and this does include the public transportation upgrades I was referring to as an alternative to taking the car to work.

As for the tolls, they're an extreme measure - they shouldn't be implemented without further thought - but I do see benefit in an expanded (ultra) low emission zone across Birmingham, Wolverhampton and the Black Country as we've seen in London, which has noticeably reduced traffic and nitrogen oxide levels. This could be implemented gradually as we've seen as well.

Everyone wants the M6 Toll to be untolled, so I don't see any harm in encouraging through traffic to use the M42 and/or M6 Toll to avoid the (ultra) low emission zone, though traffic levels on the M42 and M6 Toll may rise to unacceptable levels, so a Western Orbital should be built to allow traffic to flow better. This would spur a lot of development in the west West Midlands - rolls off the tongue well, right? - though it would be desired if these were sustainable, i.e. lots of public transport, cycle and pedestrian-oriented infrastructure.

Of course, there's no appetite for this at the moment due to the cost of living crisis and recession caused by yours' truly, so this would be something implemented further down the line, perhaps by 2035.

[Bryn666]

You'd need to spend billions on buses, rail, and the WM Metro before you'd remotely get any incentive to switch modes.

There are plenty of local cycling and walking schemes in the pipeline for the black country but these will only make a dent to last mile trips rather than the intertown trips across the wider region.

The real problem is the West Midlands is always conflated to be Birmingham and what works for inside the Middleway does not translate to Walsall or Halesowen.

[Chris5156]

Of course, there's no appetite for this at the moment due to the cost of living crisis and recession caused by yours' truly

You personally caused the cost of living crisis and the recession? What on earth did you do?

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

Of course, there's no appetite for this at the moment due to the cost of living crisis and recession caused by yours' truly

You personally caused the cost of living crisis and the recession? What on earth did you do?

A great number of things, I'll only tell you the important bits.

Firstly, I innovated the pork pie industry, creating a lucrative economic venture abundant with contracts. Then, I created a budget which revolutionised the economy, the likes of which have never been seen before!

[Big L]

…I created a budget which revolutionised the economy, the likes of which have never been seen before…

Are you Liz Truss or “Kami” Kwasi Kwarteng?

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

…I created a budget which revolutionised the economy, the likes of which have never been seen before…

Are you Liz Truss or “Kami” Kwasi Kwarteng?

No, I’ve never heard of them - but I have heard of the ancient proverb “in iceberg we trust” and the highly esteemed economist Kamikaze “Kami” Bumper Cars, and these bare a striking similarity to the individuals you’ve mentioned - lost legend, perhaps?

[Steven]

You'd need to spend billions on buses, rail, and the WM Metro before you'd remotely get any incentive to switch modes.

There are plenty of local cycling and walking schemes in the pipeline for the black country but these will only make a dent to last mile trips rather than the intertown trips across the wider region.

The fundamental problem is that there's nowhere to put this stuff any more. Even a lot of the Beeching railway lines are no longer available - for example, the Wolverhampton - Dudley ex-GWR route is clear, other than about 400 yards where some idiot at Sandwell Council approved a ridiculously narrow housing estate, blocking the route completely.

The real problem is the West Midlands is always conflated to be Birmingham and what works for inside the Middleway does not translate to Walsall or Halesowen.

Indeed. People just don't get the fact that Birmingham's functional area (unlike, say, Manchester's) is very much constrained by the major cities to either side. Most of the M5 through the conurbation isn't even in Birmingham's Travel to Work Area, which shows just how little influence it has on the rest of the conurbation. Spending a pile of money on "improving PT in the city" does literally that and the square root of nothing for Wolverhampton, Coventry or the Black Country.

Instead, Birmingham's functional area is very much on the SW - NE axis, including Bromsgrove, Redditch and Tamworth but not West Bromwich, Halesowen or Walsall.

And then of course, you've got the fundamental problem that you also need to spend a pile of money on the road network as suddenly all the traffic flows between the major centres and the national motorway network get reversed.

[AndyB]

Spending a pile of money on "improving PT in the city" does literally that and the square root of nothing for Wolverhampton, Coventry or the Black Country.

Surely it would do the square root of minus one for Wolverhampton, Coventry and the Black Country - an imaginary quantity.

[Steven]

Spending a pile of money on "improving PT in the city" does literally that and the square root of nothing for Wolverhampton, Coventry or the Black Country.

Surely it would do the square root of minus one for Wolverhampton, Coventry and the Black Country - an imaginary quantity.

Actually, it's actually a negative impact across the rest of the region as "but we spent all this money on improving things", meaning that no-one else gets a share.