Confusing tempoary speed limit signs

[civiccrunch86]

Normally a 50 dual carriageway, I see a road worker with a tempoary 40 sign and slow down accordingly. A few hundred metres, we reach the permenant NSL sign, but it appears the central slanted black line which you see across a white background as the NSL symbol, was kind of greyed out? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A8EqDF ... sp=sharing

Another tempoary 40 sign, but also a smaller yellow one saying "max speed 50". I use this stretch of road every day;' the yellow ones have been there for ages, the 40 temp signs just tonight. I sped up, probably averaging around 57-60mph at this point, and continued under a GSJ, where all the joining traffic was at NSL speed. There was never any "end of roadworks" sign, or any sign confirming the end of any speed restriction.

Am I in the wrong for simply using common sense to dictate what the speed limit is, or should there have been clearer , less confusing signage or one to show where the roadworks end. I didn't see any cameras, there certainly arent' any normally on this section, but you never can be sure.

[tom66]

Normally a 50 dual carriageway, I see a road worker with a tempoary 40 sign and slow down accordingly. A few hundred metres, we reach the permenant NSL sign, but it appears the central slanted black line which you see across a white background as the NSL symbol, was kind of greyed out? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A8EqDF ... sp=sharing

I've seen this before. It's really lazy and creates an arguably ambiguous sign. The entire sign should be covered or removed instead, but they just paint over the black bar to somewhat obscure the meaning.

Another tempoary 40 sign, but also a smaller yellow one saying "max speed 50". I use this stretch of road every day;' the yellow ones have been there for ages, the 40 temp signs just tonight. I sped up, probably averaging around 57-60mph at this point, and continued under a GSJ, where all the joining traffic was at NSL speed. There was never any "end of roadworks" sign, or any sign confirming the end of any speed restriction.

Max speed signs are not mandatory. And no terminal speed limit signs seems quite common with roadworks too. I've entered motorway roadworks with electronic signs switched on indicating speed, but with no terminal sign because the gantries on a long stretch were all switched off. Legally, I'd need to do 40 mph until the "end of variable speed limit" sign 50 miles down the road.

Am I in the wrong for simply using common sense to dictate what the speed limit is, or should there have been clearer , less confusing signage or one to show where the roadworks end. I didn't see any cameras, there certainly arent' any normally on this section, but you never can be sure.

I'm not sure what the law is on temporary road signs, I would have thought a TRO needs to be in place for them to be enforceable? But since there's no way to tell, just by looking at the signs, whether a TRO applies, legally you are risking a speeding penalty. The chance of such a penalty being enforced is low, but not zero.

[civiccrunch86]

I have looked online for any record of the road works and can find none. I would have also thought there would need to be an "end of road works" sign, the kind you usually see with the highways agency number.

[ellandback]

The ongoing roadworks on the M62 j27 to 28 (ish) have variable temporary speed limits indicated by rotatable (prism) signs (as opposed to the permanent variable speed limit also applicable via gantry signals on this stretch). Almost always these are set to 50, but I have seen them set a couple of times to 40 and once, IIRC, to 60 (not, in either case, for any obvious reason, it must be said, but I am not an expert).

For a regular user that in itself is bad enough, as rightly or wrongly - at least until the first time you see something different - you do get used to the speed limit being whatever it usually is. But there was one occasion when I was travelling through and the first sign I came to said 50, but after a short while I happened to glance down at the speed limit icon on my dashboard and was surprised to see it was showing 40. Sure enough, the next and all subsequent repeater signs were also showing 40. Evidently I had missed at least one previous sign showing 40, but the camera in my car had picked it up. I have no idea quite how long I (and plenty of others: I was not obviously going faster than everybody else around me or that might have raised my suspicions) was unwittingly speeding along in the misguided belief I was in a 50 zone, but it would seem not long enough to worry the average speed cameras as I have heard no more about it. I wasn't happy at the time though as this stretch has never on any other occasion had a change of speed limit part way through so I am pretty sure the initial sign had been left at 50 by mistake.

On another occasion the temporary limit had been set at 50 but part way through the overhead gantry signs were inexplicably showing the NSL symbol. I ignored them as I knew we were still in the roadworks zone, but plenty of people sped up and then slammed on their brakes when they got to the next 50/speed camera repeater sign.

This sort of thing just shouldn't happen.

[civiccrunch86]

The ongoing roadworks on the M62 j27 to 28 (ish) have variable temporary speed limits indicated by rotatable (prism) signs (as opposed to the permanent variable speed limit also applicable via gantry signals on this stretch). Almost always these are set to 50, but I have seen them set a couple of times to 40 and once, IIRC, to 60 (not, in either case, for any obvious reason, it must be said, but I am not an expert).

For a regular user that in itself is bad enough, as rightly or wrongly - at least until the first time you see something different - you do get used to the speed limit being whatever it usually is. But there was one occasion when I was travelling through and the first sign I came to said 50, but after a short while I happened to glance down at the speed limit icon on my dashboard and was surprised to see it was showing 40. Sure enough, the next and all subsequent repeater signs were also showing 40. Evidently I had missed at least one previous sign showing 40, but the camera in my car had picked it up. I have no idea quite how long I (and plenty of others: I was not obviously going faster than everybody else around me or that might have raised my suspicions) was unwittingly speeding along in the misguided belief I was in a 50 zone, but it would seem not long enough to worry the average speed cameras as I have heard no more about it. I wasn't happy at the time though as this stretch has never on any other occasion had a change of speed limit part way through so I am pretty sure the initial sign had been left at 50 by mistake.

On another occasion the temporary limit had been set at 50 but part way through the overhead gantry signs were inexplicably showing the NSL symbol. I ignored them as I knew we were still in the roadworks zone, but plenty of people sped up and then slammed on their brakes when they got to the next 50/speed camera repeater sign.

This sort of thing just shouldn't happen.

Surprised to hear that - i didn't think google maps/satnatv etc would recognise a tempoary speed limit, only the permenant one.

In this instance, again tonight. It seems like the NSL signs were more "whited-out" this time, and a small 50 repeater sign on a lamp post pass the tempoary 40 sign had been greyed over. But again, no sign confirming the end of the roadworks. It's the new J28 scheme at the A12/M25. Once I had passed the entrance to the national highways compound, where the works are, which roughly corresponds to the 70 NSL sign, I picked up speed. All the joining traffic from the M25 at 70 and no further repeater signs. Shoddy work.

[tom66]

Surprised to hear that - i didn't think google maps/satnatv etc would recognise a tempoary speed limit, only the permenant one.

It sounds like the previous poster has a car with an ADAS lane assistance camera, which also picks up road signs.

But, this is still possible for a non-camera based vehicle. Don't know about regular stand-alone satnavs, but Google gets a lot of their traffic and road closure information from local authorities and the highways agency. That's how they know in advance of most road closures. They could receive temporary speed limits, too, but I'm not sure if they have implemented that yet.

[Mark Hewitt]

In general on the motorway temp speed signs are generally ignored unless there is enforcement or an obvious reason. It's not at all unusal for sections of the A1(M) in County Durham to have barrier damage and a 50mph limit posted. The amount of traffic ignoring this is probably over 95%.