Dualling the A1237

mehere · Post by **mehere** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 08:35

According to look north, York CC are going to whitehall to get funding to not only build 3 new park and ride schemes (20 million) but spend a further ,100 million Replacing the A1237 with a dual carrigeway.
Does anyone on here know about this or if there are any web links to plans?

Mark Hewitt · Post by **Mark Hewitt** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 08:38

I wouldn't be surprised if they got their money but on the condition that congestion charging was introduced.

You mark my words

SteveA30 · Post by **SteveA30** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 09:15

Without GSJ's, dualling will just create 2 parrallel queues at each rbt. although they should at least be 50% shorter, in theory.

Mark Hewitt · Post by **Mark Hewitt** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 09:16

It would probably be better, and cheaper, to create a new outer ring road as D2GSJ and leave the current ring road in place as it is.

stu531 · Post by **stu531** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 22:42

Noo! really? I don't adam and eve it.

Would be good, but as has been pointed out, would need to build GSJs for it to be worthwhile. I was on it at the weekend - it's still an awful road.

True Yorkie · Post by **True Yorkie** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 02:12

Funny thing is a developer is wanting to build houses north of clifton moor... and due to the sheer size of the development (5000 houses) there would be money provided for devlopment of infastructure... which would mean dualling and GSJ'ing at least the main troublespots of the A1237.
But guess what?! the council and all the local NIMBY's are objecting to it... saying polish people will take up all the houses and it's not the development the city needs. Add to that the council then declares York is short on affordable houses.
If the A1237 gets dualled under this present councils' authority I will have to make some sort of stupid public show - as it's not gonna happen! our present council couldn't organise a pi$$up in a brewery!

here's a few press articles:-

Councillors against the eco-town:-
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknew ... 89.0.0.php

Rush-hour speeds worse than london:
(take a look at the comment by the councillor near the end of the article - his head is well and truly jammed up his arse!!)
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknew ... 86.0.0.php

Council bid to end crippling congestion:-
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknew ... estion.php
- Notice the councillors are staing enlarging the roundabouts first, and then "the next step may be a flyover of some sort" - so they obviously still don't want to spend out on GSJ'ing and would much rather go for the cheap option even if it doesn't work!
the problem with the park-and-ride is that fir$tgroup runs the bus service, and instead of charging a group fare which could includes two or three return trips to the site (so as to dump shopping in the car) they instead charge straight single or one-way return fares which are almost as expensive as getting a taxi there! it's actually CHEAPER to wait ing ridlock and use the city center carparks!

campaign launched:
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknew ... mpaign.php

The hopgrove roundabout is a stupid solution to this problem. a ring road is supposed to flow smoothly into each section. the double-roundabout almost prohibits traffic from the A1237 eastbound going onto the A64 southwestbound. flyovers are needed here.

--

meanwhile, whist York's councillors try and <strike>dictate</strike> ask people how their services should be cut whilst council tax still increases
( http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknew ... 30.0.0.php ) - the councillors all decide they're going to give themselves a nice 11% payrise!! ( http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknew ... 37.0.0.php )

I used to think this city was quite something... but this present council are a bunch of

tossers with their heads up their arses who don't give a flying **** about the residents, only about whether thay can afford 5 foreign holidays a year!

Chris5156 · Post by **Chris5156** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 07:27

True Yorkie wrote:The hopgrove roundabout is a stupid solution to this problem. a ring road is supposed to flow smoothly into each section. the double-roundabout almost prohibits traffic from the A1237 eastbound going onto the A64 southwestbound. flyovers are needed here.

If Manchester's motorway ring road can't manage this, I wouldn't hold out much hope for York...

ravenbluemoon · Post by **ravenbluemoon** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 09:17

Coun Galloway said if the Ocotber bid was successful, the money "may be used to dual certain sections of the outer ring road".

Note the words "may be" and "certain sections" - which means to say that if they even bother, it would only be small bits, and not the lot.

That road needs the GSJs at least on the major junctions - A59, A19, Hopgove, Clifton Moor perhaps - or the jams will not change. It also seems a waste of money putting in the new roundabout at Askham Bryan - I admit that it is a lot safer making turns towards Acomb and Woodthorpe, but surely the whole thing will have to be redesigned in the future?

I'm sure I heard that the A1237 was actually almost at capacity in the late '80s - considering that it opened in 1987 - that's bad.

Oh, and I sympathise with anyone living in York at the minute - the council seem to be a load of inept muppets. Galloway used to be our ward councillor in the '80s and '90s, and was useless then.

norwichuk · Post by **norwichuk** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 14:34

on a side note to this, perhaps in a parallel universe the M1 would have been extended to run close to York, much as it does with major cities further south, rather than follow the A1 alignment which runs closer to much smaller and less important towns. Just a thought! It could have then turned North to follow the A19 route back towards the A1.

Mattemotorway · Post by **Mattemotorway** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 21:07

The A1237 Dualling would be good- It's just a shame there's such little chance

Anyway, I think the A1237 was built in two sections- Hopgrove to A19 in 1985 or something, and A19 to Copmanthorpe in 1987...

I'm surprised they didn't make it D2 from the start, to go with the A64- Which is much better!

I would like it to run straight into the A64, but I would like a roundabout on the Clifton Moor GSJ- Those that have been there may know why!

Rillington · Post by **Rillington** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 22:13

I did a project on the A1237 bypass (and got top marks for it) and the reason it wasn't built as a dual carriageway in the first place was due to how it was funded - out of local authority money and not nationally. Very short-sighted if you ask me. There was a later plan to dual part of the road just east of the A19 roundabout but that was also shelved.

Yes, the road was opened in stages with the section over the Ouse opening two years after the section west of Hop Grove.

True Yorkie · Post by **True Yorkie** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 01:51

The main problem with reworking the hopgrove roundabout is trying to maintain all possible movements.

This is my take on a solution:-

Both roundabouts at Hopgrove would go. the A64 one replaced by a freeflow. the A1036/A1237 roundabout would go and the junction closed. the only access would be under the new A1237 to the farm on t'other side of road.
A new junction would be built further up the A1237 to give a freeflow access to the rapidly growing Monks Cross area. The presently unclassified Dual Carriageway going from the Park-and-ride site up to ASDA would become the new A1036, with a flyover onto the presently unclassified road behind asda which would then continue as the A1036 up to the rear of Monks Cross where the roundabout would be retained or enlarged. the Dual Carriageway section would divide up at the flyover where there would be a lane drop for access to ASDA, Shopping park, and Jockey Lane. A new link road would be built here to the unclassified road (formerly the A1036) to the PH on hopgrove lane - this would give residents of Stockton-on-the-forest much easier access to Monks X without having to double-back. also, providing pavements on this road would allow people staying at the holiday inn behind the PH to walk to and from ASDA (presently impossible, and people don't like it). New slip roads could be introduced at the park-and-ride site so buses from York don't have to wait on the roundabout, and traffic exiting the P&R site to either Monks X or the A1237 wouldn't have to wait on the roundabout.

To see what the area presently looks like, click HERE

True Yorkie · Post by **True Yorkie** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:54

I've just done this for the other end of the A1237

Yes, there is a squiggly junction there!! The problem is access needs to be retained to all the yellow routes there. to the south is Copmanthorpe, which a half-hourly bus service needs access to that and to/from A64 leeds-bound. On the north side the roadway there serves Askham Bryan, Askham Richard, and back to other villages no longer with full access from A64 due to gap closing.

Present layout HERE

DavidBrown · Post by **DavidBrown** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 13:24

My plans for the A1237 here.

Click on the image to get a larger version.

Truvelo · Post by **Truvelo** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 15:48

If you GSJ'd the roundabout nearest the P&R then that would provide a decent length of freeflow on the A1036.

True Yorkie wrote:

sotonsteve · Post by **sotonsteve** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 15:54

York Ring Road dualling. Would be good, but I have as much faith in it happening as a dualled western approach into Gosport.

Rillington · Post by **Rillington** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 20:06

Excellent ideas Trueyorkie.

Mattemotorway · Post by **Mattemotorway** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 21:03

Rillington wrote:Yes, the road was opened in stages with the section over the Ouse opening two years after the section west of Hop Grove.

Yes! I was right!

And TrueYorkie, I'd have a look at your maps, but, my computer won't let me...

David, I've seen your A1237 before... The thing I don't like is the Clifton Moor junction... There is an actual point to the roundabout being there... Those that have tried to go from B&Q or Argos to Tesco or something, will know why!

And if you really want to know, here's the answer!

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.9 ... &z=19&om=0

Stevie D · Post by **Stevie D** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 23:43

True Yorkie wrote:The main problem with reworking the hopgrove roundabout is trying to maintain all possible movements.

That's ridiculously over the top, even by Sabristi standards!

A single roundabout at the junction of A1237 and A1036, with slip roads onto the A64 replacing the eastern roundabout, would be perfectly adequate for the junction. Either slip-roads as below, or you could go for a trumpet interchange (which I don't like, because the west-bound carriageway is on a sharp left-hand bend anyway).

True Yorkie · Post by **True Yorkie** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 23:44

Truvelo wrote:If you GSJ'd the roundabout nearest the P&R then that would provide a decent length of freeflow on the A1036.
True Yorkie wrote:

Do you mean near the actual P&R Site, or the one where the P&R sign is? I have put in a blue line on the map indicating where the actual site is, because the sign makes it confusing! I did try GSJ'ing the roundabout where the A1036 goes dual outside the actual P&R site, but where the road goes back to S2(+s/b bus lane) makes it tricky as I don't really like merging traffic on an S2.

Rillington wrote:Excellent ideas Trueyorkie.

Thanks!

DavidBrown wrote:My plans for the A1237 here.

Click on the image to get a larger version.

Ah yes I remember looking at that once before. the idea of building a new bridge over the ECML and river by the A19 is quite possibly the only way to alignthe road properly without flattening the houses on the south side of the A1237. Additionally, I know the folks who live at the end of that long private drive would be happy to have their own road onto the roundabout, because at present it's quite hard turning off the N/B A19 into that driveway at peak times.

Mattemotorway wrote:And TrueYorkie, I'd have a look at your maps, but, my computer won't let me...

I take it your PC doesn't allow access to photobucket. if I get the chance I'll upload them onto SABRE gallery and post the links here.

Mattemotorway wrote:The thing I don't like is the Clifton Moor junction... There is an actual point to the roundabout being there... Those that have tried to go from B&Q or Argos to Tesco or something, will know why!

To be brutally honest I hate the way clifton moor is set out. it is not very friendly to any form of transport.
The Bus drops you off by the petrol station at the end of TESCO near the A1237 roundabout, while only minor occaisional services use the bus stop by the VUE cinema. You then have to go everywhere on the complex by foot - which if you want to go to McDonalds to grab a bite, or to Argos or B&Q, you have to walk around to the main road and wait half an hour for the pelican crossing to decide it will actually change the lights so you can actually cross. you than have to walk for about half a mile again for McDonalds. And then let's say you want to go to Tenpin Bowling RIGHT at the other end of the complex - it'd probably take you about half an hour to finally get there (2 miles)!!

by car you have similar problems, but to go from McDonalds to (for example) the ciname or tesco you have to turn left only up to the A1237 and get caught in the linear carpark, then turn 180 degrees to double back on t'other side of the road before you can actually get anywhere near either Tesco or the cinema. the whole complex is the wrong way around - why the hell did they build it so the front of the shops face the road here you can't get access to the complex from? whilst the service road (which has less vehicles per hour) gets access from Stirling road - it would have mad much more sense to build the complex so the fronts of the shops and the carparks face Stirling road whilst the backs face the A1237. you'd then be able to have multiple entries and exits from the carparks. another gripe is access from Wickes (the eastern end of the central unit) to Dunelm (the western end of the eastern unit) - you can't just walk across from one to the other, you have to walk back along a road with no pavements to get back onto stirling road, walk a few yards, and walk the same length going back the other way to get to the front of dumelm!!
No wonder kids in york aren't fat, they have to walk a mini-marathon just to go shopping with mum and dad!!the whole place was built t*ts-up if you ask me!

I'll have to think about this one, but I'll see if I can come up with a freeflow for the A1237 clifton moor junction WHILST retaining the movements from the western unit to the central unit.

Dualling the A1237

A1237 York outer ring road dualling!