Bizarre Cul-De-Sac Layout

[hburden]

I've not seen road markings like this in a cul-de-sac before, although I suppose it gets the job done (no random parking in the carriageway)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.72963 ... 384!8i8192

Can double yellows be placed like this?

[JohnnyMo]

No weirder that this traffic island/flower bed

[WHBM]

There was a phase some years ago by some London boroughs to put double yellows round the centres of roundabouts, and even around pedestrian refuges in the middle of the road. I presumed it was a response to some specific problem.

[tom66]

Particularly odd. What "vector" (for lack of a better word) do the double yellows apply to? I've always associated them as terminating at the pavement - with pavement parking being illegal regardless of double yellow markings. But painting them here creates the question of whether they apply to the inset or outset of the shape of the road.

If it applies to the outset, as this particular council appears convinced it does, a double yellow line completely encompassing a ring road would prohibit traffic parking anywhere, at all, within the area the road encompasses (/pedant mode off)

[MotorwayGuy]

This used to be a strange setup but has since been modified.

Yellow lines on a roundabout.

Red lines on a roundabout.

A single yellow line and a bus stand in a roundabout.

[ChrisH]

My understanding is that double yellows (or other kerbside restrictions) apply from the centre of the carriageway to the back of the footway. If those ones are actually in the centre of the carriageway then technically they may not apply? But the intention is obviously clear.

Some SUDS or a community garden would be a better solution I would have thought.

[tom66]

This used to be a strange setup but has since been modified.

Reminds me a bit of this oddly extremely wide entrance to a street in Gildersome, near Leeds:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75624 ... 384!8i8192

I'm not quite sure what was intended by this. It's almost large enough for an artic to do a full turn without worrying itself too much, but there's no obvious large industry nearby to benefit.

[Ruperts Trooper]

This used to be a strange setup but has since been modified.

Reminds me a bit of this oddly extremely wide entrance to a street in Gildersome, near Leeds:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75624 ... 384!8i8192

I'm not quite sure what was intended by this. It's almost large enough for an artic to do a full turn without worrying itself too much, but there's no obvious large industry nearby to benefit.

Maybe it was originally a terminus turning point for buses or trolley buses ?

[Truvelo]

Reminds me a bit of this oddly extremely wide entrance to a street in Gildersome, near Leeds:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75624 ... 384!8i8192

I'm not quite sure what was intended by this. It's almost large enough for an artic to do a full turn without worrying itself too much, but there's no obvious large industry nearby to benefit.

That's quite common with council estates. https://goo.gl/maps/W5QEh6Z4fpc9fQwB6

[Chris5156]

I've not seen road markings like this in a cul-de-sac before, although I suppose it gets the job done (no random parking in the carriageway)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.72963 ... 384!8i8192

Can double yellows be placed like this?

How thoroughly and gloriously ugly. I agree with ChrisH, double yellows prohibit parking from the centre line of the road to the back of the footway, so you don't ever need to paint them around traffic islands, the middle of roundabouts, etc - only against the nearside kerb. So painting them in the middle is needless; painting them against an island that is itself only painted is doubly nonsensical because it fails to make clear whether you can park within the shape or whether it only prohibits parking around the edge of it.

I don't really see the value in preserving the middle of that space as tarmac but preventing anyone using it. If it doesn't need to be drivable road space, put a kerb round and plant grass or a flowerbed in there.

[swissferry]

Have seen some dual carriageways with double yellow along the central reservation and wondered was there a problem with people parking there?

Have seen some crazy parking around the SEC in Glasgow (less so now that it is a Controlled Zone) so suspect the double yellows around these traffic islands were added because people were parking there.

[MotorwayGuy]

Essentially a roundabout is a circular one-way road, and a dual-carriageway is just two parallel one-way roads. At what point does something become a single road?

This example basically is treated as a dual carriageway, but there are no keep left, no entry signs or arrows anywhere along its length that legally prevent you from driving on the "wrong" side. The double yellow lines are painted for a few yards at the end and then stop, even though it's clearly intended for the restrictions to cover the entire area.

[Fenlander]

Don't forget that DYLs also allow certain types of parking so the council are effectively green lighting that behaviour.

[jnty]

Don't forget that DYLs also allow certain types of parking so the council are effectively green lighting that behaviour.

Is that strictly true? I don't think DYLs explicitly enable anything that wouldn't already be permitted.

[Bryn666]

Don't forget that DYLs also allow certain types of parking so the council are effectively green lighting that behaviour.

Is that strictly true? I don't think DYLs explicitly enable anything that wouldn't already be permitted.

3 hours for blue badge holders. 30 minutes loading. Not that you gain anything taking advantage of these exemptions in the original example!

[jnty]

Don't forget that DYLs also allow certain types of parking so the council are effectively green lighting that behaviour.

Is that strictly true? I don't think DYLs explicitly enable anything that wouldn't already be permitted.

3 hours for blue badge holders. 30 minutes loading. Not that you gain anything taking advantage of these exemptions in the original example!

Yes but those are both permitted on an unmarked road too? And if you're causing an obstruction you're still causing an obstruction.

[pjr10th]

Is that strictly true? I don't think DYLs explicitly enable anything that wouldn't already be permitted.

3 hours for blue badge holders. 30 minutes loading. Not that you gain anything taking advantage of these exemptions in the original example!

Yes but those are both permitted on an unmarked road too? And if you're causing an obstruction you're still causing an obstruction.

I'd say the important difference is that if yellows are present along more than the outer kerbs, it implies the road is two separate roadways and legitimises stopping alongside the central reservation for whatever reason.

[Piatkow]

3 hours for blue badge holders. 30 minutes loading. Not that you gain anything taking advantage of these exemptions in the original example!

Yes but those are both permitted on an unmarked road too? And if you're causing an obstruction you're still causing an obstruction.

I'd say the important difference is that if yellows are present along more than the outer kerbs, it implies the road is two separate roadways and legitimises stopping alongside the central reservation for whatever reason.

Are there any situations where what looks like a dual carriageway is technically 2 parallel roads?

[Chris Bertram]

Yes but those are both permitted on an unmarked road too? And if you're causing an obstruction you're still causing an obstruction.

I'd say the important difference is that if yellows are present along more than the outer kerbs, it implies the road is two separate roadways and legitimises stopping alongside the central reservation for whatever reason.

Are there any situations where what looks like a dual carriageway is technically 2 parallel roads?

This used to be just like that - Olton Boulevard East, Acocks Green:
https://goo.gl/maps/UfbFrQ6ePFdkchKo7

Both carriageways were full two-way running, and warning signs were erected at regular intervals to emphasise this. The "official" main B4514 was (and is) the more southerly of the two carriageways. Now, however, the northerly carriageway has been modified so that it can only be accessed from an access point about halfway along, though you can exit from it at either end.

[jervi]

Regarding DYLs in the centre of a dual carriageway, these ones in Worthing were recently added.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.81465 ... 384!8i8192
Previous order - https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/apps/tro2/7991.pdf
Current order - https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/apps/tro2/8513.pdf
The orders say that the school keep clear markings cover the whole carriageway, whilst on the ground they are only on the left side and DYLs on the right.

The issue I find with assuming that orders apply to that side of the road to the edge of the highway boundary regardless of if its a single or dual carraigeway or even a roundabout is about at which point a dual carriageway is considered two one-way roads, or at which point a roundabout becomes a gyratory. There isn't really a legal boundary of when one becomes another, yet are expected to be treated differently in legal ways. For example if waiting restrictions need to marked for the off-side or if the speed limit is 60mph or 70mph. Or that roundabouts do not need one-way orders, but gyratories do.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.84105 ... 384!8i8192 This could be argued to be a roundabout, but yet it allows parking within it (and DYLs).