Side road zebra crossings

[pjr10th]

A new trial in Cardiff of side road zebra crossings, to reinforce the new Highway Code rule for pedestrians and drivers at junctions:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... a-25528428

I'm generally supportive as I've found difficulty with many drivers failing to give way to me when crossing the road since the changes. Zebra crossing markings are universally understood. However, I would have concerns if this leads councils to start cutting corners on "mid-block" zebra crossings on fast/busy roads.

In the article, Alison Hembury forwards the particularly ridiculous view they shouldn't be installed because there's already six crossings on the road it's been installed on. But some of these are over 400 m away, and all of them aren't going to be much use to pedestrians wanting to cross at this point!

[Ruperts Trooper]

A new trial in Cardiff of side road zebra crossings, to reinforce the new Highway Code rule for pedestrians and drivers at junctions:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... a-25528428

I'm generally supportive as I've found difficulty with many drivers failing to give way to me when crossing the road since the changes. Zebra crossing markings are universally understood. However, I would have concerns if this leads councils to start cutting corners on "mid-block" zebra crossings on fast/busy roads.

In the article, Alison Hembury forwards the particularly ridiculous view they shouldn't be installed because there's already six crossings on the road it's been installed on. But some of these are over 400 m away, and all of them aren't going to be much use to pedestrians wanting to cross at this point!

Vehicles coming out from the side road have to give way to traffic on the main road, naturally, but will obstruct the crossing while waiting for a gap in the traffic - in many cases they can't wait further back as they wouldn'd be able to see main road traffic.

[AlexBr967]

I think it's a great idea. This is exactly how it was when I visited Prague. It was very clear where cars were to give way to pedestrians and it felt safer as a pedestrian too. Hopefully this can be rolled out at least on main roads. Obviously doing every road would be unfeasable.

[Chris5156]

I think this is a great idea. I'm sure I remember seeing proposals from Westminster in the early 1990s to trial the same thing, but it never happened. It just reinforces the existing priority rules at junctions, which are horribly abused and misunderstood, and it's good to see that problem being taken seriously.

The trick will be to get the treatment right in terms of markings, placement, and avoiding any detrimental effect on the high level of compliance with "proper" zebra crossings.

Vehicles coming out from the side road have to give way to traffic on the main road, naturally, but will obstruct the crossing while waiting for a gap in the traffic - in many cases they can't wait further back as they wouldn'd be able to see main road traffic.

I don't think that's a major issue; it's certainly not a reason not to do it. If a car has to stop on the stripes while it waits to pull out that's fine, the only thing that matters is that the driver has first given pedestrians the chance to cross the road before they pull up to the give way line.

[Bryn666]

I think I'd prefer if we introduced a new style of urban give way marking that replaced the dashes and triangle with just zebra stripes, then we'd have a lot less clutter but that might be too revolutionary for the powers that be.

[the cheesecake man]

It's not a completely new idea.

[Alderpoint]

It's not a completely new idea.

That is a full zebra, with zig-zags and beacons, neither of which are there in the one in the original post.

[jnty]

It's not a completely new idea.

Gosh, I find what that picture says about the way roads operate in this country so profoundly depressing. I'd be interested in what posters used to roads in continental Europe think.

[AlexBr967]

It's not a completely new idea.

No, not completely new escpecially not new in continental europe

[Nathan_A_RF]

I think it's a great idea. This is exactly how it was when I visited Prague. It was very clear where cars were to give way to pedestrians and it felt safer as a pedestrian too. Hopefully this can be rolled out at least on main roads. Obviously doing every road would be unfeasable.

Exactly, felt a lot different to here but also felt a lot easier to cross in the city on our visit

[jervi]

In general, I am not a fan of these.

Pedestrians, and where applicable, cyclists on the pavement have priority crossing over side roads at ALL junctions.

At some junctions it may be needed to reinforce this fact, and there are already other ways of doing it such as providing continuous footways and/or moving the giveway line to the rear of the pavement.

By applying these "zebra" crossings to side roads, it may only reinforce this priority at junctions with the markings, rather than all junctions, plus it could result in confusing road markings to all road users.
In addition it means that there are more markings to paint and maintain which has a capital and additional maintenance cost.

[WhiteBlueRed]

It's not a completely new idea.

Gosh, I find what that picture says about the way roads operate in this country so profoundly depressing. I'd be interested in what posters used to roads in continental Europe think.

The UK is many light years behind Europe in terms of pedestrian infrastructure. Here in Russia, it was always the norm for there to be zebra crossings at junctions. And even if there isn't a zebra crossing, the rules have always required turning drivers to give way to pedestrians.
The lack of pedestrian priority at junctions is one of the first things that struck me as odd about the UK.

[Chris5156]

The lack of pedestrian priority at junctions is one of the first things that struck me as odd about the UK.

There is pedestrian priority at junctions - it just isn't well observed or enforced. This trial is an attempt to change that.

Pedestrians, and where applicable, cyclists on the pavement have priority crossing over side roads at ALL junctions.

At some junctions it may be needed to reinforce this fact, and there are already other ways of doing it such as providing continuous footways and/or moving the giveway line to the rear of the pavement.

I think it needs reinforcing everywhere, TBH, and my ideal outcome from this trial is to simplify the markings to just a set of stripes, and introduce it as a standard junction marking in place of give way lines.

[Chris Bertram]

The lack of pedestrian priority at junctions is one of the first things that struck me as odd about the UK.

There is pedestrian priority at junctions - it just isn't well observed or enforced. This trial is an attempt to change that.

Pedestrians, and where applicable, cyclists on the pavement have priority crossing over side roads at ALL junctions.

At some junctions it may be needed to reinforce this fact, and there are already other ways of doing it such as providing continuous footways and/or moving the giveway line to the rear of the pavement.

I think it needs reinforcing everywhere, TBH, and my ideal outcome from this trial is to simplify the markings to just a set of stripes, and introduce it as a standard junction marking in place of give way lines.

Ah, but you're forgetting "not invented here", which has stopped many sensible ideas from other countries (e.g. setting traffic lights to flashing amber overnight, left turn on red etc) from even being trialled in the UK.

[Chris5156]

Ah, but you're forgetting "not invented here", which has stopped many sensible ideas from other countries (e.g. setting traffic lights to flashing amber overnight, left turn on red etc) from even being trialled in the UK.

Yes, that particular rake does keep hitting us in the face

[L.J.D]

One in Leeds here been there since 2009 used to be traffic signals but they removed them and put the zebra in.

[Bomag]

One in Leeds here been there since 2009 used to be traffic signals but they removed them and put the zebra in.

That's on a one way street. For those saying blocking a crossing is OK while waiting turn, it isn't.

In all the cases I have seen the 'before' showed a marking that was at best a Cat1/Safety Critical failure if not unlawful. Perhaps maintaining the road markings rather than 'innovate' would work just as well.

[Ruperts Trooper]

One in Leeds here been there since 2009 used to be traffic signals but they removed them and put the zebra in.

That's on a one way street. For those saying blocking a crossing is OK while waiting turn, it isn't.

In all the cases I have seen the 'before' showed a marking that was at best a Cat1/Safety Critical failure if not unlawful. Perhaps maintaining the road markings rather than 'innovate' would work just as well.

So what's the answer if the sightline to the main road is blocked if you wait behind the crossing? Maybe the answer is that crossings aren't permitted UNLESS the sightline is good from before the crossing.

[the cheesecake man]

So what's the answer if the sightline to the main road is blocked if you wait behind the crossing? Maybe the answer is that crossings aren't permitted UNLESS the sightline is good from before the crossing.

Move the crossing back from the junction so there's space to wait? Thereby achieving balanced consideration of all users.

[Bryn666]

So what's the answer if the sightline to the main road is blocked if you wait behind the crossing? Maybe the answer is that crossings aren't permitted UNLESS the sightline is good from before the crossing.

Move the crossing back from the junction so there's space to wait? Thereby achieving balanced consideration of all users.

Taking crossings off desire lines mean they aren't used. Plus with buildings you lose intervisibility.

Maybe we could just stop designing city centres around cars and start designing for people, like civilised nations are doing.