Im wondering what all the signage used to look like before the Hixon disaster. I know the railway signals used to have no amber light - There is this photo of this old sign and im curious to what other signs changed after this disaster happened.
There is this one, which i have seen many times before.
jervi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 23:06
So taking it at face value. A "slow vehicle" as far as I am aware is only defined at level crossings. That being a vehicle which does not exceed 5mph.
...
There were some terribly unsafe crossings at that time, one that I was aware of was at Gypsy Lane Marton
In 1968 all that was here on what is now the Esk Valley line was signage like this
Subsequently housing was built along with automatic half barriers. These have been now supplemented by bollards which have now been fixed closed with only pedestrians allowed on the crossing.
Unbreakify wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 20:32
Makes me wonder if there were any types of Pre-Hixon crossings. I do know AHB existed. What about AOCL?
I can just about recall the controversy concerning the AHB crossing at Star Lane in Wokingham which was quite local to me where there was a collision in 1967, nearly a year before the crash at Hixon. I've found some details in Hansard Online, it involved a Dormobile minibus and sadly the driver was killed. I've also found a photo of the barriers being installed in 1964 but no signage had yet been erected:
Unbreakify wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:26Yes im back.
Im wondering what all the signage used to look like before the Hixon disaster. I know the railway signals used to have no amber light - There is this photo of this old sign and im curious to what other signs changed after this disaster happened.
There is this one, which i have seen many times before.
The "twin barrier" sign was canned and replaced with the standard picket fence after Hixon, beyond this and the amber light introduction on the wig-wags there were no other changes.
Bryn Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already. She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Unbreakify wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:26Yes im back.
Im wondering what all the signage used to look like before the Hixon disaster. I know the railway signals used to have no amber light - There is this photo of this old sign and im curious to what other signs changed after this disaster happened.
There is this one, which i have seen many times before.
The "twin barrier" sign was canned and replaced with the standard picket fence after Hixon, beyond this and the amber light introduction on the wig-wags there were no other changes.
I actually remember seeing a film about a Pre-Hixon signal in colour - I remember it was set in england maybe? I do have a photo but its on twitter and it takes forever to find it. Ill upload it here; if anyone can identify the film it'd be helpful to making my reconstruction of Pre-Hixon crossings much better. Even any sort of colour film of a Pre-Hixon crossing would be nice.
Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 21:08
The "twin barrier" sign was canned and replaced with the standard picket fence after Hixon, beyond this and the amber light introduction on the wig-wags there were no other changes.
It might sound stupid, but i never understood this change. I get the fact a fence made more sense back then; but in today's terms, it really doesn't make any sense.
Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 21:08
The "twin barrier" sign was canned and replaced with the standard picket fence after Hixon, beyond this and the amber light introduction on the wig-wags there were no other changes.
It might sound stupid, but i never understood this change. I get the fact a fence made more sense back then; but in today's terms, it really doesn't make any sense.
I think the question has always been what you could use that would be better. I don’t think anyone would argue the fence sign is particularly obvious or intuitive, but it is better than the “hammers” sign which proved utterly meaningless to most of the travelling public.
Possibly the sign needs a train in it somehow. I wonder if it’s possible to combine the fence with the existing steam train symbol so it becomes clearer that there is a railway crossing with a barrier in front - but I suspect that would end up looking very cluttered no matter how carefully you designed it.
Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 21:08
The "twin barrier" sign was canned and replaced with the standard picket fence after Hixon, beyond this and the amber light introduction on the wig-wags there were no other changes.
It might sound stupid, but i never understood this change. I get the fact a fence made more sense back then; but in today's terms, it really doesn't make any sense.
I think the question has always been what you could use that would be better. I don’t think anyone would argue the fence sign is particularly obvious or intuitive, but it is better than the “hammers” sign which proved utterly meaningless to most of the travelling public.
Possibly the sign needs a train in it somehow. I wonder if it’s possible to combine the fence with the existing steam train symbol so it becomes clearer that there is a railway crossing with a barrier in front - but I suspect that would end up looking very cluttered no matter how carefully you designed it.
Like the speed camera sign, a picture of a camera well out of date by the time it was introduced, its redundancy is one of the reasons it works as it is not used in any other context.
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A railway symbol would have made more sense (perhaps combined with "LEVEL CROSSING WITH GATE" in text.) Both the two gate symbol and the fence symbol don't accurately describe the hazard.
Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 21:08
The "twin barrier" sign was canned and replaced with the standard picket fence after Hixon, beyond this and the amber light introduction on the wig-wags there were no other changes.
It might sound stupid, but i never understood this change. I get the fact a fence made more sense back then; but in today's terms, it really doesn't make any sense.
I think the question has always been what you could use that would be better. I don’t think anyone would argue the fence sign is particularly obvious or intuitive, but it is better than the “hammers” sign which proved utterly meaningless to most of the travelling public.
Possibly the sign needs a train in it somehow. I wonder if it’s possible to combine the fence with the existing steam train symbol so it becomes clearer that there is a railway crossing with a barrier in front - but I suspect that would end up looking very cluttered no matter how carefully you designed it.
DfT is proposing to introduce a new warning sign for user worked level crossings next year with a similar one following for other level crossing types soon after. The new sign has already been trialled.
Looks a bit too cluttered for a good sign design IMO. Symbols should be as simple as possible. It falls for the issue some posts above have raised above about appearance too when it comes to showing a modern train. The old steam loco symbol is better both for being simpler and instantly recognisable.
Helvellyn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:01
The old steam loco symbol is better both for being simpler and instantly recognisable.
I would agree, but I think research for the sign indicated that younger generations don't instantly recognise a steam engine any more.
This problem aside, I suspect that using the same 'train' sign for all crossings - whether the train looks old or new - would be a good plan. Are there any regularly used automatic open crossings on any roads any more? I think they got rid of them all in the Highlands.
Helvellyn wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:01
The old steam loco symbol is better both for being simpler and instantly recognisable.
I would agree, but I think research for the sign indicated that younger generations don't instantly recognise a steam engine any more.
This problem aside, I suspect that using the same 'train' sign for all crossings - whether the train looks old or new - would be a good plan. Are there any regularly used automatic open crossings on any roads any more? I think they got rid of them all in the Highlands.
They are not reading Thomas The Tank Engine any more? Not seen the Hogwarts Express? A steam loco may be archaic but that is one of the reasons it works in this sort of situation, it serves as an ideogramme in the way Chinese characters are.
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Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 21:08
The "twin barrier" sign was canned and replaced with the standard picket fence after Hixon, beyond this and the amber light introduction on the wig-wags there were no other changes.
It might sound stupid, but i never understood this change. I get the fact a fence made more sense back then; but in today's terms, it really doesn't make any sense.
I think the question has always been what you could use that would be better. I don’t think anyone would argue the fence sign is particularly obvious or intuitive, but it is better than the “hammers” sign which proved utterly meaningless to most of the travelling public.
Possibly the sign needs a train in it somehow. I wonder if it’s possible to combine the fence with the existing steam train symbol so it becomes clearer that there is a railway crossing with a barrier in front - but I suspect that would end up looking very cluttered no matter how carefully you designed it.
Arguably the steam train should cover all - the accompanying "STOP WHEN LIGHTS SHOW" would detail if barriers/signals exist. We could go one further and signpost the wig wags as the hazard like we do for traffic lights for such crossings with control?
If the steam train is deemed too old fashioned and someone wants to draw a horrendous modern effort (like several modern signs have betrayed the clean lines look of the 1963 set) fine...
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Bryn Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already. She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
