Pre-Hixon Disaster Signage.

[Helvellyn]

The braking performance of the tram is a complete red herring - it is incumbent upon (and should be well within the skills of) the emergency driver to proceed in a safe manner in consideration of the hazards they see before them. That would include not proceeding into the path of a moving tram which had not clearly acknowledged their presence and intent - just as we wouldn't barrel through a give way junction at full speed (and would exercise extreme caution if someone 'lets us out'.)

Well yes and no, the braking performance of a tram will very much be part of the consideration of whether it's approved to operate at all. It needs to be able to brake well enough (and go slow enough) for the driver to be able to meaningfully react to those hazards, just like any other vehicle allowed on the roads.

[AndyB]

In context, the fence symbol was largely what people were used to. The pre-worboys symbol was a gate, and the double T sign wasn't entirely obvious.

The other change was the signage about large or slow vehicles having to phone before crossing at an AHB.

[Herned]

The bottom line is that a tram or any other railed vehicle will always take longer to stop than a vehicle with rubber tyres as the latter has a higher coefficient of friction and thus supports heavier braking. When a question was asked in the house about this the distances for a diesel commuter train on the flat with good brakes was as follows

Trams have electromagnetic brakes for emergencies which can stop them far quicker than adhesion brakes, and as good if not better than a rubber tyred vehicle.

https://youtu.be/2Ark3JusZ8w

[exiled]

In context, the fence symbol was largely what people were used to. The pre-worboys symbol was a gate, and the double T sign wasn't entirely obvious.

The other change was the signage about large or slow vehicles having to phone before crossing at an AHB.

Wikipedia* (T&Cs apply) indicates that level crossings with a barrier are almost all signed with the gate. The warning is really for the potential presence of the barrier across the road not the level crossing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... road_signs

For level crossings without barriers the steam train is largely used, although something people will not see every day ask someone to draw a 'train' it is likely to be a steam locomotive almost wherever you are.

[Barkstar]

For level crossings without barriers the steam train is largely used, although something people will not see every day ask someone to draw a 'train' it is likely to be a steam locomotive almost wherever you are.

As the main issue here is vehicle traffic using LCs should we not bear in mind that drivers will have been required to study the Highway Code to pass their test and should have learned that a particular symbol means a specific thing - in this case the steam locomotive - regardless of whether they have clue what that symbol is a representation of?

[KeithW]

Wikipedia* (T&Cs apply) indicates that level crossings with a barrier are almost all signed with the gate. The warning is really for the potential presence of the barrier across the road not the level crossing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... road_signs

For level crossings without barriers the steam train is largely used, although something people will not see every day ask someone to draw a 'train' it is likely to be a steam locomotive almost wherever you are.

Personally I would draw a profile of a HST 125 as that was the first British modern looking reliable and comfortable train, the last steam train was built in the UK over 60 years ago but in the UK we seem to dislike modernity.

[KeithW]

Wikipedia* (T&Cs apply) indicates that level crossings with a barrier are almost all signed with the gate. The warning is really for the potential presence of the barrier across the road not the level crossing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... road_signs

For level crossings without barriers the steam train is largely used, although something people will not see every day ask someone to draw a 'train' it is likely to be a steam locomotive almost wherever you are.

Personally I would draw a profile of a HST 125 as that was the first British modern looking reliable and comfortable train, the last steam train was built in the UK over 60 years ago but in the UK we seem to dislike modernity.

[exiled]

Wikipedia* (T&Cs apply) indicates that level crossings with a barrier are almost all signed with the gate. The warning is really for the potential presence of the barrier across the road not the level crossing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... road_signs

For level crossings without barriers the steam train is largely used, although something people will not see every day ask someone to draw a 'train' it is likely to be a steam locomotive almost wherever you are.

Personally I would draw a profile of a HST 125 as that was the first British modern looking reliable and comfortable train, the last steam train was built in the UK over 60 years ago but in the UK we seem to dislike modernity.

And the other European countries that use the steam engines? Basically our mental image of 'train' is a steam train unless expressed differently.

[wallmeerkat]

Personally I would draw a profile of a HST 125 as that was the first British modern looking reliable and comfortable train, the last steam train was built in the UK over 60 years ago but in the UK we seem to dislike modernity.

Computer software still uses a floppy disk as a Save icon, and they've been mostly deprecated for at least a decade. Some images just stick, and software is international with an American bias.

[Conekicker]

Or just use the Northern Ireland T12 symbol?
https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/si ... ng-t12.pdf

[Bryn666]

Or just use the Northern Ireland T12 symbol?
https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/si ... ng-t12.pdf

Makes you wonder why the user worked crossing sign didn't just copy this, but I'm still not convinced showing the tracks the way it does really says "crossing".

[exiled]

Or just use the Northern Ireland T12 symbol?
https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/si ... ng-t12.pdf

Makes you wonder why the user worked crossing sign didn't just copy this, but I'm still not convinced showing the tracks the way it does really says "crossing".

Isn't that just the NI Railway Station sign, in GB we still have the BR double arrow.

[Bryn666]

Or just use the Northern Ireland T12 symbol?
https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/si ... ng-t12.pdf

Makes you wonder why the user worked crossing sign didn't just copy this, but I'm still not convinced showing the tracks the way it does really says "crossing".

Isn't that just the NI Railway Station sign, in GB we still have the BR double arrow.

Yes, it is, but it could've been reused for the warning sign shown earlier in the thread rather than someone re-drawing an existing symbol. We've lost the art of clean, consistent, and simple symbols on signs it seems.

[exiled]

Yes, it is, but it could've been reused for the warning sign shown earlier in the thread rather than someone re-drawing an existing symbol. We've lost the art of clean, consistent, and simple symbols on signs it seems.

Indeed, the originals are very much the road sign version of the Canadian flag. Very much of the time that they were developed, but timeless in that they say exactly what they are without much more explanation.

[Ruperts Trooper]

The problem with NOT using a steam train as a symbol for a railway is that all multiple units and locomotives look like coaches to someone who isn't technical.

[Helvellyn]

The problem with NOT using a steam train as a symbol for a railway is that all multiple units and locomotives look like coaches to someone who isn't technical.

Exactly. It's a recognisable, distinctive shape in the way that modern boxes on rails are not, and therefore a much better choice of symbol. Similarly a smartphone is never going to make a useful icon or sign for a phone, it's just a rectangle, so you're more likely to encounter an old handset since it's more of a clear, recognisable shape even with minimal detail. Modern for the sake of it doesn't do anyone any favours.

[WHBM]

As the main issue here is vehicle traffic using LCs should we not bear in mind that drivers will have been required to study the Highway Code to pass their test and should have learned that a particular symbol means a specific thing - in this case the steam locomotive - regardless of whether they have clue what that symbol is a representation of?

I understand this approach was specifically criticised in a government report after a train accident - the railway Risk Assessment held that HGV drivers would have passed the test, which included how to use a minor level crossing where you work the gates yourself, whereas the HGV driver whose truck was involved in a train collision was (like many) driving on an EU licence from Eastern Europe, fully valid but without the background training/test.

[AndyB]

Of course, that’s the case for using the international symbols of the picket fence for a gated (or barriered) crossing and the steam engine for an open crossing. International lorry drivers should know.

Ireland used to use a railway line in the middle of an open X for its (few) open crossings, but now uses a picture of a generic diesel train, not entirely dissimilar to the symbol they use for a railway station. Beware of the Railway station, anyone?

Private crossings in Ireland all now have Stop signs, and pedestrian crossings have a standard red triangle steam engine at the actual crossing.

More details and links https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us ... -crossings

[Big L]

…the last steam train was built in the UK over 60 years ago but in the UK we seem to dislike modernity.

Tornado, completed 2008, says hello. Maybe put a representation of that on the sign. Modern and steam.

There are several other new-build locos currently in the pipeline I believe too.

[wallmeerkat]

Not sure if it is official but this small level crossing in Ireland uses both the diamond with picket fence, but also a red triangle with a steam train on

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.7904812 ... 312!8i6656 / https://www.google.com/maps/@52.7570275 ... 312!8i6656

I've noticed that Ireland doesn't seem to like level crossings on classified roads, preferring bridges. (In contrast to NI where even the main road to the International airport has a level crossing across it)