Dutch road infrastructure vs. the UK - why?

[M42_J10]

I'm trying to get to the bottom of how and why eg. the motorway network in NL is so well developed vs. the UK.
I have some theories but lack anything concrete, or any real evidence. It's tempting to think that Dutch people/politicians/civil servants just have different attitudes to the British, but I think this would be falling into a common 'grass is always greeer' trap.
Is there some key difference in how these things are funded there? In the national planning system? Is it simply that much of NL is considered new or artificial land to be moulded at will, while the UK is considered ancient and to be preserved at all costs?
Any opinions or evidence would be appreciated.

[Vierwielen]

I am half-Dutch (sorry quarter-Dutch and quarter-Fries - the flag on the left is the flag of the Province of Fryslân, formerly known as Friesland).

One of the first things that stands out is that the Dutch have a process that encourages consensus-building. This is apparent in their parliament where they have PR and almost always a coalition government. They are probably more business-minded that Britain - for example when the euro was introduced, all the countries that adopted the new currency made standard packets of coins available at the banks. The exact contents of each packet varied from country to country and was worth between of the order of £5 to £10, depending on the appropriate banknotes in circulation in the country concerned. The Dutch did things a little differently - they GAVE a packet to each household, arguing that the householder would pay for it anyway through taxes.

One of my hobbies is tracing my family tree. The Dutch archives have put almost everything on the web - the argument being (I think) that this will stop the archive offices being swamped with visitors doing family research and thereby reduce heating costs etc.

Another example of their pragmatism is the way in which Rotterdam was rebuilt after the war. The centre of Rotterdam was flattened by the Germans in order to force a capitulation. In 1945, the Dutch government compulsory purchased the entire city centre and rebuilt it to a modern design.

Their pragmatism also extended to the damming of the Zuider Zee in the years preceding the war. Their business model was that the current (1930's) generation would pay the capital costs of creating the dam (and creating work for the unemployed), the next generation would pay the interest on the loans while the third generation would reap the benefit.

When a Dutch pensioner dies, two monthly payments are always credited to their bank account after their death. This reduces the paperwork needed to correct for over-payments and aso ensures that that there is ready money for funeral and other expenses. Again, in the long term, this will benefit everybody so paying it out of taxes is no problem.

Finally, my observation is that the Dutch have the organisational attitudes of the Germans, but the humour of the British.

[Chris Bertram]

Finally, my observation is that the Dutch have the organisational attitudes of the Germans, but the humour of the British.

So much better than the other way round ...

[nowster]

Finally, my observation is that the Dutch have the organisational attitudes of the Germans, but the humour of the British.

So much better than the other way round ...

"...and it's all organised by the Swiss." (As the joke goes.)

[Chris Bertram]

Ah yes, how does it go?

Heaven is where ... the cooks are French, the lovers are Italian, the police are British, the engineers are German and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where ... the cooks are British, the lovers are Swiss, the police are German, the engineers are French and it is all organised by the Italians.

[Owain]

Ah yes, how does it go?

Heaven is where ... the cooks are French, the lovers are Italian, the police are British, the engineers are German and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where ... the cooks are British, the lovers are Swiss, the police are German, the engineers are French and it is all organised by the Italians.

The version I know has those two the other way around; "where the cooks are Italian and the lovers are French".

After all, the Italians are far better with food than the French!

[Vierwielen]

Ah yes, how does it go?

Heaven is where ... the cooks are French, the lovers are Italian, the police are British, the engineers are German and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where ... the cooks are British, the lovers are Swiss, the police are German, the engineers are French and it is all organised by the Italians.

The version I know has those two the other way around; "where the cooks are Italian and the lovers are French".

After all, the Italians are far better with food than the French!

I recall reading somewhere that one well-known Continental general (I forget who) said that he spoke to his women in Italian, to his soldiers in French and to his dog in German.

[exiled]

Ah yes, how does it go?

Heaven is where ... the cooks are French, the lovers are Italian, the police are British, the engineers are German and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where ... the cooks are British, the lovers are Swiss, the police are German, the engineers are French and it is all organised by the Italians.

The version I know has those two the other way around; "where the cooks are Italian and the lovers are French".

After all, the Italians are far better with food than the French!

I recall reading somewhere that one well-known Continental general (I forget who) said that he spoke to his women in Italian, to his soldiers in French and to his dog in German.

It is mainly attributed to King of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor Collector of Other Titles and Custodian of the Habsburg Chin, Charles V in the first half of the 16th C CE

[Vierwielen]

The version I know has those two the other way around; "where the cooks are Italian and the lovers are French".

After all, the Italians are far better with food than the French!

I recall reading somewhere that one well-known Continental general (I forget who) said that he spoke to his women in Italian, to his soldiers in French and to his dog in German.

It is mainly attributed to King of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor Collector of Other Titles and Custodian of the Habsburg Chin, Charles V in the first half of the 16th C CE

Charles V was also father of Phillip II (whose beard was singed by Drake) and against whom the Dutch revolted.

[Chris Bertram]

I recall reading somewhere that one well-known Continental general (I forget who) said that he spoke to his women in Italian, to his soldiers in French and to his dog in German.

It is mainly attributed to King of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor Collector of Other Titles and Custodian of the Habsburg Chin, Charles V in the first half of the 16th C CE

Charles V was also father of Philip II (whose beard was singed by Drake) and against whom the Dutch revolted.

Said Philip was also the husband of Queen Mary I. He doesn't seem to have had an awful lot of luck with his foreign adventures.

[Enceladus]

I know the Netherlands pretty well as my older sister lives just outside Amsterdam with her family and I have visited the country for well over 20 years now.

Their far denser motorway network is a reflection of their dense population - particularly in the Randstad in the West of the country - and their culture of consensus and agreed common goals rather than rampant NIMBYism and an adversarial culture when it comes to critical infrastructure.

The Dutch also have a much stronger sense of the common good than exists in Britain and Ireland where it seems the Anglo-American contagion of selfishness rules supreme.

One final - and very important - factor to also consider is that the Netherlands has Europoort, the largest sea port in Europe which serves many other European countries and its geographical location means that, like Belgium, it is an important transit country where its motorway system is serving a lot of international road and freight traffic from Germany, Belgium, France etc. Not so in the case of the UK.

[Herned]

I would suggest that centuries of relying on public infrastructure to keep your feet dry gives people a different outlook on the need for collective infrastructure of all kinds.

[Chris Bertram]

I would suggest that centuries of relying on public infrastructure to keep your feet dry gives people a different outlook on the need for collective infrastructure of all kinds.

"God made the world, but the Dutch built Holland".

[exiled]

I would suggest that centuries of relying on public infrastructure to keep your feet dry gives people a different outlook on the need for collective infrastructure of all kinds.

Also telling that the Dutch government body in charge of roads, canals, and flood prevention works is the Rijkswaterstaat.

[M42_J10]

Speaking of which, I've just seen this tweet from Rijkswaterstaat about a temporary motorway barrier that jacks itself up and moves around on little wheels under remote control, which I imagine will save a LOT of headaches with traffic management
https://twitter.com/Rijkswaterstaat/sta ... 8908274688
Also: https://go-barry.com/en/