OS maps

[Gav]

I liked being able to look at recent OS maps and be able to zoom in -

That seemed to fall away and trying to find that was a bit of a pain...


However...

I have found it out there agian. the whole country and right down to close scale..

go to page => scroll down to map os route planner click on the broken square box to fill screen then move around and zoom in and out,

https://www.mudandroutes.com/walks-by-a ... onal-park/

[nowster]

There are historic OS maps here on this very site.

For recent stuff: http://streetmap.co.uk/map?X=304269&Y=228389&A=Y&Z=120

Bing Maps has OS mapping at the 1:25k and 1:50k level: https://www.bing.com/maps?cp=51.943766% ... .0&style=s

[Steven]

There are historic OS maps here on this very site.

There's some modern ones as well.

[nowster]

There are historic OS maps here on this very site.

There's some modern ones as well.

True, but not the 1:25k and 1:50k ones that the original poster could access by (ab)using the OS API access of that website. I don't think the website owners would be pleased if their paid-for map access was excessively used.

[Alderpoint]

The OS layer on Bing maps is my go-to for 1:50000 and 1:25000 maps.

[Steven]

There are historic OS maps here on this very site.

There's some modern ones as well.

True, but not the 1:25k and 1:50k ones that the original poster could access by (ab)using the OS API access of that website. I don't think the website owners would be pleased if their paid-for map access was excessively used.

Which is exactly the reason SABRE Maps doesn't have any Landranger or Explorer coverage - the licensing cost. We do have modern 1:250k layers available at present, and we could do OS 1:25k Vector and 1:10k Street mapping, but for hosting costs (and my time...).

Now of course, if folk want to put into the pot so we can think about it, there's a PayPal link on SABRE Maps...

And if people would like to volunteer to help, then please PM me.

[Truvelo]

What is the cost for hosting these maps. Is it a flat fee or on a per click basis?

[nowster]

What is the cost for hosting these maps. Is it a flat fee or on a per click basis?

For using the OS API (which you don't host yourself), it's likely to be a per-click type basis (or more likely per X tiles served per month).

[Chris5156]

The pricing for the OS API is here. The relevant bit seems to be £0.0005 per 15 raster tiles at 1:25,000 or 1:50,000 scale, with the first 2,000,000 such transactions per month provided free. So we could serve up 30,000,000 tiles of Landranger and Explorer mapping per month without charge; after that (if my maths is right) we'd be paying a penny for every 30,000 tiles served.

That doesn't sound like a crazy expense, at first sight, but I've no idea how that squares with SABRE Maps usage, nor is there any easy way of telling how much usage the Landranger and Explorer layers would get if we started providing them. I suspect they'd be quite popular and might bring in new traffic from outside the site. It's amazing how many tiles you end up downloading when you start zooming and panning around.

I think from memory (I have an API account) you can put a cap on your monthly spending, beyond which it stops serving tiles until the start of the next month.

[nowster]

I suspect that the technical problem with integrating it with SABRE maps is not the price but rather that the tiles are strictly on the OS Grid, and not conformed to our system's internal tile grid.

[M4Simon]

I suspect that the technical problem with integrating it with SABRE maps is not the price but rather that the tiles are strictly on the OS Grid, and not conformed to our system's internal tile grid.

When we had Landranger before, I think they were the only thing that couldn't be overlaid on OSM, nor could you switch from any other map to/from the Landranger tiles without lsoing your location and scale. However, they did work as stand alone tiles. Others will remember better than me.

Simon

[nowster]

I suspect that the technical problem with integrating it with SABRE maps is not the price but rather that the tiles are strictly on the OS Grid, and not conformed to our system's internal tile grid.

When we had Landranger before, I think they were the only thing that couldn't be overlaid on OSM, nor could you switch from any other map to/from the Landranger tiles without lsoing your location and scale. However, they did work as stand alone tiles. Others will remember better than me.

That would probably be it. The tiles we'd get from the OS would be squarely aligned to the GB Grid (Airey spheroid), whereas OSM tiles are based on a different map projection (spherical Mercator).

Compare how Bing Maps's OS mapping looks when you get to extremities like Cornwall or NW Scotland. The grid is very skewed.

[rileyrob]

Whilst I don't particularly like the Bing maps site, it does work most of the time for Landranger and Explorer maps, and I think most of us are paying over the odds for Microsoft 'Subscriptions' of one sort or another, so I have no objection to them having to pay the OS for mapping.
If we were talking just a few pounds a month for OS maps on Sabre, then I think it would be good to add them to Sabre Maps, however, I do not feel that Sabre's resources would be best spent if we were talking about £10 or £15 a month, which it could quite easily become. There are already a fair number of sites out there offering 'free' access to OS Mapping in one form or another, so it would not be a unique feature for Sabre. We also used to have Google Map layers on maps and the Wiki, but from memory there were a number of reasons why they were removed as well. I don't think the lack of either is particularly detrimental, or at least not while we have free access to OSM.

I used to use Walk Highlands maps for access to the OS, but they have put some sort of block on the maps so that you can only scroll so far from the walk you view. Even in Scotland this means that there are some areas that can no longer be viewed because there are no listed walks in the area. I presume this was done to limit their costs on map tiles. It is frustrating though, because a lot of the walks / cycle rides I do are not on their site, so the whole of my route is not on one of their walk maps. You also can't scroll out to try and figure out which summit or island is on the horizon 20 or more miles away!!

[Chris5156]

We also used to have Google Map layers on maps and the Wiki, but from memory there were a number of reasons why they were removed as well.

I think the main one was that Google used to give away its maps for free, and they changed it to a pay-per-tile model. They provide a certain amount free every month, but SABRE was way over that threshold.

[Truvelo]

For me it's older large scale mapping that would be more useful. The stuff on old-maps was perfect for my needs and since it closed it's wreaked havoc with the maps I'm drawing of abandoned road schemes. NLS has similar mapping but it's patchy and there's nothing still in copyright. I suspect the reason old-maps closed is because of the costs so I doubt we would be able to cover the costs.

[rileyrob]

My understanding was that old-maps was somehow hosted / operated by the OS themselves. It was an extremely useful resource for post 1972 mapping, and there have been a lot of changes to urban routes since then which are not covered on Landrangers etc.
I find NLS maps have pretty good coverage for Scotland up to 1972, but I've never really looked at their coverage further south. However, hosting anything like this that is in copyright would be, I suspect, astronomically expensive, not just in licencing, but also in scanning and web hosting.

[owen b]

I agree that Landranger and Explorer mapping would be nice to have on SABRE, but I also agree that it wouldn't be unique to SABRE and so wouldn't be worth paying very much for.

I also use walkhighlands a lot, however I have recently found the website very unreliable and have frequently been unable to connect. I don't know what the problem is, but it doesn't appear to be affected by which browser I use, or whether I use my home laptop, my mobile, or my work PC (during lunch break of course ). Consequently I no longer use it for mapping except occasionally to look at specific hill walking routes as described by walkhighlands contributors.

I have an OS Maps subscription which I pay £19.99 for annually, and it's excellent. Don't tell OS, but I would pay a lot more than £19.99 if I had to. It's transformed the way I navigate when I'm hillwalking as it's very mobile friendly and it's my go to website when I'm on my laptop for general UK modern map browsing. I tend to have it on my 27 inch monitor so I can see a lot of detail at high resolution, and when I'm not actively browsing OS maps but I'm on some other website on my laptop I tend to leave it on the monitor as wallpaper.

[M4Simon]

I agree that Landranger and Explorer mapping would be nice to have on SABRE, but I also agree that it wouldn't be unique to SABRE and so wouldn't be worth paying very much for.

I also use walkhighlands a lot, however I have recently found the website very unreliable and have frequently been unable to connect. I don't know what the problem is, but it doesn't appear to be affected by which browser I use, or whether I use my home laptop, my mobile, or my work PC (during lunch break of course ). Consequently I no longer use it for mapping except occasionally to look at specific hill walking routes as described by walkhighlands contributors.

I have an OS Maps subscription which I pay £19.99 for annually, and it's excellent. Don't tell OS, but I would pay a lot more than £19.99 if I had to. It's transformed the way I navigate when I'm hillwalking as it's very mobile friendly and it's my go to website when I'm on my laptop for general UK modern map browsing. I tend to have it on my 27 inch monitor so I can see a lot of detail at high resolution, and when I'm not actively browsing OS maps but I'm on some other website on my laptop I tend to leave it on the monitor as wallpaper.

I also have an OS Maps subscription and it is a game changer in terms of navigation in the hills.

The advantage of any of these other maps (Google, OS Landranger/ explorer) being available on SABRE Maps is that SABRE Maps could truly be a one stop shop for historic and current mapping, where one could easily be overlaid on the other.

If the projections aren't compatible then unless the Maps are close to being free, we are better working on our USP of the best collection of historic maps of the UK and Ireland on the Internet.

Simon

[owen b]

I have an OS Maps subscription which I pay £19.99 for annually, and it's excellent. Don't tell OS, but I would pay a lot more than £19.99 if I had to. It's transformed the way I navigate when I'm hillwalking as it's very mobile friendly and it's my go to website when I'm on my laptop for general UK modern map browsing. I tend to have it on my 27 inch monitor so I can see a lot of detail at high resolution, and when I'm not actively browsing OS maps but I'm on some other website on my laptop I tend to leave it on the monitor as wallpaper.

I also have an OS Maps subscription and it is a game changer in terms of navigation in the hills.

Yes, specifically :
i) it's weatherproof. Paper maps are a nightmare in the rain or wind, and it's frequently rainy and/or windy when I need a map in the hills, especially when I'm above the cloud base and can't see where I'm going so I need to check the map frequently
ii) the mobile fits in a small pocket. Paper maps will fit in a fleece or outer jacket pocket albeit a bit uncomfortably but that's no use when it's warm and the maps are in my rucksack
iii) OS maps on a mobile is instantly zoomable, so great for very detailed large scale navigation but also great for identifying viewpoints many miles away
iv) no more issues of having to use two maps at once when you're located near the join of two maps
v) with the assistance of the little red arrow you can see exactly where you are and which compass direction you're facing, unlike a hard copy map where in featureless terrain or in the mist it's not uncommon to not know exactly where you are
vi) I preload the route for my hill walk onto my mobile the evening before, and as the subscription covers all of GB there's no risk that I won't have got the specific Explorer for the area I'm walking. I've got all the 1:50,000s as hard copies, but many of them are from the 1970s so not very reliable these days
Of course I always carry hard copy paper maps when I'm in the hills as back up in case of mobile / battery / OS maps problems but these days I very rarely use them when I'm out and about.

[M4Simon]

I have an OS Maps subscription which I pay £19.99 for annually, and it's excellent. Don't tell OS, but I would pay a lot more than £19.99 if I had to. It's transformed the way I navigate when I'm hillwalking as it's very mobile friendly and it's my go to website when I'm on my laptop for general UK modern map browsing. I tend to have it on my 27 inch monitor so I can see a lot of detail at high resolution, and when I'm not actively browsing OS maps but I'm on some other website on my laptop I tend to leave it on the monitor as wallpaper.

I also have an OS Maps subscription and it is a game changer in terms of navigation in the hills.

Yes, specifically :
i) it's weatherproof. Paper maps are a nightmare in the rain or wind, and it's frequently rainy and/or windy when I need a map in the hills, especially when I'm above the cloud base and can't see where I'm going so I need to check the map frequently
ii) the mobile fits in a small pocket. Paper maps will fit in a fleece or outer jacket pocket albeit a bit uncomfortably but that's no use when it's warm and the maps are in my rucksack
iii) OS maps on a mobile is instantly zoomable, so great for very detailed large scale navigation but also great for identifying viewpoints many miles away
iv) no more issues of having to use two maps at once when you're located near the join of two maps
v) with the assistance of the little red arrow you can see exactly where you are and which compass direction you're facing, unlike a hard copy map where in featureless terrain or in the mist it's not uncommon to not know exactly where you are
vi) I preload the route for my hill walk onto my mobile the evening before, and as the subscription covers all of GB there's no risk that I won't have got the specific Explorer for the area I'm walking. I've got all the 1:50,000s as hard copies, but many of them are from the 1970s so not very reliable these days
Of course I always carry hard copy paper maps when I'm in the hills as back up in case of mobile / battery / OS maps problems but these days I very rarely use them when I'm out and about.

I also make sure I've got paper maps with me, and I'll also make sure they're available off-line on my mobile. The most important part is knowing exactly where you are on the map in poor visibility or on a featureless landscape and you could be at any one of a number of rocky outcrops. There are plenty of routes available on the OS map site, but you can always add your own.

Simon