Nathan_A_RF wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 16:26
But that's a stop sign on the main road, that doesn't make sense. If there were sightline issues, then the through road should be changed.
In fact the road ahead is almost a dead end (or as good as). You can can turn right at the end, but it’s part of a one-way system, and really only for cars. When HGV’s try and do it (illegally), they inevitably cause damage.
No, the road in the first link is for through traffic, so you have to take the left. It’s now part of the A1175. Before 2010, it was part of the A16 (diverted when the High Street was pedestrianisedin the 1970s).
Chris5156 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 07:55
I think, generally speaking, the UK is unusual when compared to other countries because we use stop signs so rarely.
Came across a couple of YouTube videos comparing the US and UK driving and it was commented how rare STOP signs are in the UK. In my experience France is like the US in this. Off the top of my head I could only count two stop signs in the public road network around here.
It does have the advantage of it means stop signs in the UK effectively say 'We really mean STOP'
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But isn’t that exactly what STOP is meant to mean?? If it’s a Give Way (or Yield), you should put that instead.
By the same token, when you’re driving, you should only Give Way as indicated (by signs and oncoming traffic), not STOP (at a dotted line) when there is no oncoming traffic (unless you are carrying on straight, for instance)
Then again, the US has a culture of 4-way stops at intersections (technically the same here, but not signed as such).
In the case of England a lot of junctions don't even seem to bother with "give way" signs and instead have little more than some basic markings. Northern Ireland does seem a bit more likely to insist on signage than England.
When it comes to stop signage, it seems in countries like the US, ROI and France that stop is generally the default with yield/give way signage being an option at more minor junctions where high visibility has been proven. In the case of the UK the reverse seems to generally be true, with give way signage being the default and stop signage only generally permitted at poor visibility junctions. I've noticed in the Republic Of Ireland that nearly every non-roundabout junction on major roads will have a stop rather than yield sign regardless of visibility while on minor roads the two signs seem more mixed in their use.
Fairly easy to see why. But not the Lakes, for some reason.
In the case of the Isle Of Man I believe they have their own regulations and stop signs seem to generally be used in much the same way as the ROI. In the case of those two Stamford junctions they are the kind of junction that you might see stop signs at in Northern Ireland, where they are less common than in the ROI but more common than in most of England.
Another peculiar thing related to signage that I've noticed in Northern Ireland would be how almost all sliproads onto dual carriageways and motorways seem to have a "no right turn" sign on the sliproad and a "no left turn" sign on the main carriageway. This seems to still be the case on newly opened sliproads in Northern Ireland, yet I can only think of a few sliproads with such signage in Great Britain (I'm pretty sure the A34 has a handful). I'd imagine Northern Ireland must have a different signage policy on this than what the rest of the UK has. The ROI seems to also insist on no-turn signs on sliproads but unlike Northern Ireland is a different country to Great Britain.
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 02:53
When it comes to stop signage, it seems in countries like the US, ROI and France that stop is generally the default with yield/give way signage being an option at more minor junctions where high visibility has been proven. In the case of the UK the reverse seems to generally be true, with give way signage being the default and stop signage only generally permitted at poor visibility junctions. I've noticed in the Republic Of Ireland that nearly every non-roundabout junction on major roads will have a stop rather than yield sign regardless of visibility while on minor roads the two signs seem more mixed in their use.
SOuth Africa is another country where STOP signs abound, even in locatiosn where large roundabouts could be used (for example here. I remeber reading about an English teacher who was fined for not stopping at a STOP sign - she used the analogy of a comma versus a full stop and clained that a "comma" was also a stop, but the magistrate told her that the sign meant a "full stop".
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 02:53
When it comes to stop signage, it seems in countries like the US, ROI and France that stop is generally the default with yield/give way signage being an option at more minor junctions where high visibility has been proven. In the case of the UK the reverse seems to generally be true, with give way signage being the default and stop signage only generally permitted at poor visibility junctions. I've noticed in the Republic Of Ireland that nearly every non-roundabout junction on major roads will have a stop rather than yield sign regardless of visibility while on minor roads the two signs seem more mixed in their use.
SOuth Africa is another country where STOP signs abound, even in locatiosn where large roundabouts could be used (for example here. I remeber reading about an English teacher who was fined for not stopping at a STOP sign - she used the analogy of a comma versus a full stop and clained that a "comma" was also a stop, but the magistrate told her that the sign meant a "full stop".
I think South Africa and the US are two of the most notable stop sign installers. In Ireland this junction would probably be a roundabout with yield signs.
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 02:53
When it comes to stop signage, it seems in countries like the US, ROI and France that stop is generally the default with yield/give way signage being an option at more minor junctions where high visibility has been proven. In the case of the UK the reverse seems to generally be true, with give way signage being the default and stop signage only generally permitted at poor visibility junctions. I've noticed in the Republic Of Ireland that nearly every non-roundabout junction on major roads will have a stop rather than yield sign regardless of visibility while on minor roads the two signs seem more mixed in their use.
SOuth Africa is another country where STOP signs abound, even in locatiosn where large roundabouts could be used (for example here. I remeber reading about an English teacher who was fined for not stopping at a STOP sign - she used the analogy of a comma versus a full stop and clained that a "comma" was also a stop, but the magistrate told her that the sign meant a "full stop".
I think South Africa and the US are two of the most notable stop sign installers. In Ireland this junction would probably be a roundabout with yield signs.
Or the UK, definitely. It’s a bit too large to be an open crossroads. Although I’m thinking there must be similar examples in South Australia, Northern Territory and elsewhere.
My first thought was why the hell isn’t this signalised?? As the teacher found out, non-compliance is dangerous.
Vierwielen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:35
SOuth Africa is another country where STOP signs abound, even in locatiosn where large roundabouts could be used (for example here. I remeber reading about an English teacher who was fined for not stopping at a STOP sign - she used the analogy of a comma versus a full stop and clained that a "comma" was also a stop, but the magistrate told her that the sign meant a "full stop".
I think South Africa and the US are two of the most notable stop sign installers. In Ireland this junction would probably be a roundabout with yield signs.
Or the UK, definitely. It’s a bit too large to be an open crossroads. Although I’m thinking there must be similar examples in South Australia, Northern Territory and elsewhere.
My first thought was why the hell isn’t this signalised?? As the teacher found out, non-compliance is dangerous.
One of Street View's other images of the junction, taken at a different date (May this year, so very recently) shows pedestrians walking in the middle of the road selling items including oranges and shoes:
I think this provides quite a good contrast of how South Africa is an unusual mixture of developed and undeveloped - it probably has a larger middle class than any other African country but also still has a lot of very poor people. Some Latin American countries I think are similar in this regard - Brazil for example has some middle class areas but also has the favelas which are essentially slums. Both Brazil and South Africa also have a relatively similar GDP per-capita of around $7000 give or take a few hundred dollars either way.
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 12:45
I think South Africa and the US are two of the most notable stop sign installers. In Ireland this junction would probably be a roundabout with yield signs.
Or the UK, definitely. It’s a bit too large to be an open crossroads. Although I’m thinking there must be similar examples in South Australia, Northern Territory and elsewhere.
My first thought was why the hell isn’t this signalised?? As the teacher found out, non-compliance is dangerous.
One of Street View's other images of the junction, taken at a different date (May this year, so very recently) shows pedestrians walking in the middle of the road selling items including oranges and shoes:
I think this provides quite a good contrast of how South Africa is an unusual mixture of developed and undeveloped - it probably has a larger middle class than any other African country but also still has a lot of very poor people. Some Latin American countries I think are similar in this regard - Brazil for example has some middle class areas but also has the favelas which are essentially slums. Both Brazil and South Africa also have a relatively similar GDP per-capita of around $7000 give or take a few hundred dollars either way.
Berk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 13:28
Or the UK, definitely. It’s a bit too large to be an open crossroads. Although I’m thinking there must be similar examples in South Australia, Northern Territory and elsewhere.
My first thought was why the hell isn’t this signalised?? As the teacher found out, non-compliance is dangerous.
One of Street View's other images of the junction, taken at a different date (May this year, so very recently) shows pedestrians walking in the middle of the road selling items including oranges and shoes:
I think this provides quite a good contrast of how South Africa is an unusual mixture of developed and undeveloped - it probably has a larger middle class than any other African country but also still has a lot of very poor people. Some Latin American countries I think are similar in this regard - Brazil for example has some middle class areas but also has the favelas which are essentially slums. Both Brazil and South Africa also have a relatively similar GDP per-capita of around $7000 give or take a few hundred dollars either way.
The 2023 imagery of this junction definitely shows it in a moderate state of neglect. I know that there's a fair amount of poverty in South Africa and their government could create jobs by paying people to better maintain their roads. While their government definitely isn't one of the richest in the world, they certainly aren't among the poorest and are probably one of the wealthiest governments in Africa, although I think there have been issues with corruption in recent years (which is fairly typical when one party, in this case the ANC, has been in power for as long as nearly 30 years; most governments get past their prime when a single party has been in power for about 10 years or longer). I feel that their government should also be switching its international alignment from Russia to Europe and the US, especially considering that South Africa's fairly liberal laws (many of which date from the Mandela era but some, such as its cannabis bill, are more recent) are incompatible with the values Russia are trying to impose around the world, and their seems to be a fair amount of opposition to aligning with Russia within South Africa.
Yes, this junction looks rather dire really. It seemed to lose most of its finger posts after 2010. How the hell are you supposed to know the way to go without them??
Yes, I know about sat-navs, but I feel that as a driver you should be able to drive according to the road ahead, and visual cues such as signs.
If any more proof was needed, this recent view shows how busy it gets. Even the ‘High Accident Zone’ sign seems a bit of an understatement.
And this despite the visibility being excellent. Probably due to drivers complete failure to observe, or give way when actually required (the opposite problem to Britain where people give way much longer than required).
Guernsey is another place which makes more frequent use of stop signs than Give ways. Give ways are reserved for roundabouts and junctions with particularly good visibility. In Guernsey, stop lines are painted yellow and the STOP marking is not used (confusingly, a yellow arrow is used instead).
More confusingly, Jersey also uses the same yellow line marking, but for Give Ways, not STOPs (both have their origin in the German occupation as Halt lines, but given Germany doesn't use yellow stop lines, I have no clue why). Jersey makes inconsistent use of STOP signs v. Give Way signs.
Ah yes, good old Jersey. The only place (other than Guernsey) that does a filter in turn - where everyone is guaranteed a go at the roundabout. And it works really well.
Although despite this, on my last visit I must’ve had a ‘UK moment’ and gently edged out before getting beeped at (immediately following the car ahead isn’t allowed).
