The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.
There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).
Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.
I downloaded a set of old high resolution satellite images from the US Geological Survey EarthExplorer site yesterday that were taken on the 15th August 1973 and show the approximate M4 corridor region of the UK as it appeared at the time. Given that the images are in the public domain under US government policy, I thought it would be interesting to share some interesting snippets from them which show different road layouts to what is there today. In most cases there are very few other actual images that I'm aware of which show these former road layouts as they were 50 years ago, and because these are publically released images taken by a US government body, they are in the public domain meaning that they can be posted here.
Many of the individual image files on the USGS EarthExplorer site are around 1GB each as they are in the TIFF format and of a high resolution, typically around 35000x35000 pixels. Not all images are available for free download due to limited resources, but some of the ones which are (like the imageset that these are from) are quite fascinating to look at from a historical perspective.
The A419:
First of all, here's the A419 going from D2 to S2 on the east of Swindon, just north of Dorcan and just south of Commonhead. The M4 to Dorcan section of D2 was built and opened with the M4 about two years prior to this image being taken, yet the Stratton St. Margaret Bypass was not opened until about 1976/1977:
Here's part of the A419 at Blunsdon. This bit also looked to have been dualled by 1973 but it is a fairly short stretch, and Blunsdon Hill looks as though it may have been S3 with a suicide lane at the time:
This is the awkward bend the road made approaching Cricklade from Swindon prior to the construction of the bypass, which I think happened not long after this was taken:
Finally, just north of Latton, there was a short stretch of D2 where the modern Spine Road junction is, as well as an at-grade junction. This is a different dual carriageway to the modern day one and the section was completely torn up and relandscaped when the modern A419 was built in the late 1990s:
The original Cirencester bypass had not been built at the time and I would imagine was built sometime in the mid 1970s (of course the modern day Cirencester bypass was not opened until the mid-late 1990s).
M4/A404(M)/A308(M) at Maidenhead:
I have a feeling that the A404(M) and A308(M) were numbered differently at the time, but here's how the junction where they all meet looked in 1973. This was just a couple of years after the M4 was extended westwards to meet up with Tormarton, and the roads actually don't really look any different to now. The abandoned section of former M4 that predates the construction of this layout was obviously grassed over back in 1971 as opposed to simply being left to nature between then and now:
What is, however, particularly interesting about this old photo would be that it clearly shows the former sliproads of a junction on the M4 which I think was closed after the opening of the A308(M). These are now long gone.
The original end of the M4/A404(M):
Here's what the original western end of the Maidenhead Bypass looked like before the A404 was dualled and the junction was grade separated:
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 13:24
I have a feeling that the A404(M) and A308(M) were numbered differently at the time, but here's how the junction where they all meet looked in 1973.
The A404(M) was the A423(M) at this point; it changed in the early 90s. The A308(M) has always held that number.
What is, however, particularly interesting about this old photo would be that it clearly shows the former sliproads of a junction on the M4 which I think was closed after the opening of the A308(M). These are now long gone.
That’s the original J8. It had to be closed because it would be too close to the new junction, and its closure is the reason the A308(M) exists.
Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 14:30
These are really interesting, thanks!
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 13:24
I have a feeling that the A404(M) and A308(M) were numbered differently at the time, but here's how the junction where they all meet looked in 1973.
The A404(M) was the A423(M) at this point; it changed in the early 90s. The A308(M) has always held that number.
What is, however, particularly interesting about this old photo would be that it clearly shows the former sliproads of a junction on the M4 which I think was closed after the opening of the A308(M). These are now long gone.
That’s the original J8. It had to be closed because it would be too close to the new junction, and its closure is the reason the A308(M) exists.
I'm having a look at what Declassified Data imagesets of the UK are available to download using the USGS EarthExplorer tool. I think this is something that my 6TB HDD has come in handy for considering how large most of the downloads of high resolution imagery are (between 1 and 10GB). I think it might be interesting if I were to eventually create a gallery here of interesting segments of these historic images, considering that the imagery is in the public domain meaning that individuals are free to reuse them.
Truvelo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 14:44
Do these images cover other parts of the country?
The US took high resolution imagery covering pretty much the whole of the UK, however much of it is not currently available to download as a high resolution TIFF file (I think they add individual imagesets for free download when a person or organisation requests them to which I recall reading costs $30 per imageset, although in the mean time you can preview such images as a low resolution .jpg file), and some of it has a lot of cloud cover so is pretty much useless for this purpose. I have found some downloadable high resolution imagery featuring Bristol, Cardiff and Newport in 1973 (it was taken during construction of the Avonmouth Bridge). Another interesting thing I found on one 1973 image would be the construction of the M23 and an early section of the M16/M25.
There are a lot of imagesets listed on USGS EarthExplorer so it may take me some time to go through it and determine all of the downloadable items of interest.
While it's not related to roads in the UK, it does appear to have quite a bit of downloadable high resolution imagery of former East Germany and I think this may give me some sort of idea of what condition its roads were in. I've so far looked at one from about 1983 of Dresden and you can make out just how patchy the Autobahn surfaces were.
So far I can also confirm that there is downloadable imagery of Birmingham from 1973.
The USGS provides coordinate data for the areas each imageset covers, so I may plot the coordinates of the images I've downloaded onto a graph of the UK so you can see the areas that I'm able to provide imagery for if you want me to show you what a road looked like from space at the time.
Areas that I can confirm I won't be able to cover with the highest resolution imagery includes most of Scotland and Northern Ireland. In the case of Northern Ireland I can however provide samples of some lower resolution satellite imagery from 1974, where you can just about make out motorway junctions but not any details.
Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 14:30
These are really interesting, thanks!
RJDG14 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 13:24
I have a feeling that the A404(M) and A308(M) were numbered differently at the time, but here's how the junction where they all meet looked in 1973.
The A404(M) was the A423(M) at this point; it changed in the early 90s. The A308(M) has always held that number.
What is, however, particularly interesting about this old photo would be that it clearly shows the former sliproads of a junction on the M4 which I think was closed after the opening of the A308(M). These are now long gone.
That’s the original J8. It had to be closed because it would be too close to the new junction, and its closure is the reason the A308(M) exists.
They would’ve been closed 12-18 months at that point.
It also proves my point you could’ve moved J8 up ½-mile to where the A330 is without any fuss (or wasted motorways).
Truvelo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 14:44Do these images cover other parts of the country?
The US took high resolution imagery covering pretty much the whole of the UK, however much of it is not currently available to download as a high resolution TIFF file (I think they add individual imagesets for free download when a person or organisation requests them to which I recall reading costs $30 per imageset, although in the mean time you can preview such images as a low resolution .jpg file), and some of it has a lot of cloud cover so is pretty much useless for this purpose. I have found some downloadable high resolution imagery featuring Bristol, Cardiff and Newport in 1973 (it was taken during construction of the Avonmouth Bridge). Another interesting thing I found on one 1973 image would be the construction of the M23 and an early section of the M16/M25.
It would be interesting to see images of the A1 carriageways and junctions - all the way up from Stevenage, really. I’m thinking of where improvements have taken place in Beds/Hunts, and of course in Yorkshire.
Plus the A6 dual section that was swallowed up as part of the M25 (J22-23 in today’s money).
While it's not related to roads in the UK, it does appear to have quite a bit of downloadable high resolution imagery of former East Germany and I think this may give me some sort of idea of what condition its roads were in. I've so far looked at one from about 1983 of Dresden and you can make out just how patchy the Autobahn surfaces were.
That would be interesting. Though I can’t quite see whether East Germans actually made much use of Autobahnen. Waiting times for a (very) basic car being very, very long.
Their NSL was only 100km/h on motorways as well. And the police were pretty hot on fines…
C, E flat and G go into a bar. The barman says "sorry, we don't serve minors". So E flat walks off, leaving C and G to share an open fifth between them.
Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
ForestChav wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 18:46
Any Winchester Bypass stuff on yet?
That’s another one - the Compton Interchange. What a design. Beats me why no-one has written an article about it.
Also, myth-busting “facts” like the bypass wasn’t grade-separated. Most of it was, even Bar End Road was eventually converted. And they could’ve shut Hockley Cross for through traffic, converted it into a LILO.
ForestChav wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 18:46
Any Winchester Bypass stuff on yet?
I'm pretty certain that Winchester is covered by the 1973 imagery, yes. I'm currently yet to double check though, however it would be in the approximate path of some of the areas covered by the imagery.
Truvelo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 14:44Do these images cover other parts of the country?
The US took high resolution imagery covering pretty much the whole of the UK, however much of it is not currently available to download as a high resolution TIFF file (I think they add individual imagesets for free download when a person or organisation requests them to which I recall reading costs $30 per imageset, although in the mean time you can preview such images as a low resolution .jpg file), and some of it has a lot of cloud cover so is pretty much useless for this purpose. I have found some downloadable high resolution imagery featuring Bristol, Cardiff and Newport in 1973 (it was taken during construction of the Avonmouth Bridge). Another interesting thing I found on one 1973 image would be the construction of the M23 and an early section of the M16/M25.
It would be interesting to see images of the A1 carriageways and junctions - all the way up from Stevenage, really. I’m thinking of where improvements have taken place in Beds/Hunts, and of course in Yorkshire.
Plus the A6 dual section that was swallowed up as part of the M25 (J22-23 in today’s money).
While it's not related to roads in the UK, it does appear to have quite a bit of downloadable high resolution imagery of former East Germany and I think this may give me some sort of idea of what condition its roads were in. I've so far looked at one from about 1983 of Dresden and you can make out just how patchy the Autobahn surfaces were.
That would be interesting. Though I can’t quite see whether East Germans actually made much use of Autobahnen. Waiting times for a (very) basic car being very, very long.
Their NSL was only 100km/h on motorways as well. And the police were pretty hot on fines…
I believe some of the Midlands stretches of A1 are covered by the imagery, however I'm afraid that Yorkshire is out of the question since there doesn't seem to be any decent downloadable imagery from Manchester/Sheffield northwards. The most northern of the currently downloadable 1973 images (which were clearly taken on a good day) goes from roughly North Wales/Merseyside to the north coast of East Anglia.
Here are some major towns/cities that I've confirmed are covered by the currently downloadable high resolution imagery (which is mostly from 1973):
*Cardiff
*Newport
*Bristol
*Swindon (the northern portion from roughly the town centre upwards, the imagery of southern Swindon is not currently available for download though)
*Maidenhead
*Most of Greater London
*Southampton
*Birmingham
*The very south of Gloucester (but not the north)
*Cirencester
*The south of Oxford (but I don't think the north)
So you’re talking south of the line from the Mersey to the Wash… interesting.
Nevertheless, a lot of the A1 was improved piecemeal over the decades. As you’re aware, most of it was accomplished by fairly basic online dualling. There might be a few yards gap between the carriageways (as there is between Peterborough and Wansford), and the newer carriageway might have a slightly better alignment, but that’s about it.
You also had sections, such as near Brampton, and closer to Peterborough where there were kinks in the (usually northbound) carriageway (very hard to explain other as historical artefacts). They were ironed out over time too.
Berk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 19:35
So you’re talking south of the line from the Mersey to the Wash… interesting.
Nevertheless, a lot of the A1 was improved piecemeal over the decades. As you’re aware, most of it was accomplished by fairly basic online dualling. There might be a few yards gap between the carriageways (as there is between Peterborough and Wansford), and the newer carriageway might have a slightly better alignment, but that’s about it.
You also had sections, such as near Brampton, and closer to Peterborough where there were kinks in the (usually northbound) carriageway (very hard to explain other as historical artefacts). They were ironed out over time too.
That’s what I would also be interested in.
I feel much of the non-motorway A1 is quite a poor standard considering the road's number. I think it is a very similar standard to what the former A74 was, and both I believe were dualled around the same time (early 1960s).
I know that SABRE Maps now has quite a lot of 1960s maps that I can probably use for reference to see where these now ironed out kinks in the A1 were, and I might then be able to analyse the satellite imagery to see if I can find any of them on it.
I think the numbering comes from the simple fact that the A1 (broadly points north), thus was allocated that number. We’ll leave aside the fact it’s actually at 12o’clock, rather than 1…
ForestChav wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 18:46
Any Winchester Bypass stuff on yet?
I can now confirm that the original Winchester Bypass is definitely on one of the imagesets (D3C1206-300341F015). My computer is taking a while to extract all the data from the compressed files (I think my HDD is suffering from heavy fragmentation which is slowing things down) and as a result I've only so far viewed the low resolution preview (I know what the route of the bypass was), but look forward to showing you the bypass at a high resolution once my computer has extracted all of the downloaded files. I think the image data of the UK that I've downloaded comes to around 100GB.
The quality of the original TIFF image that this is from is a bit better than this but I had to compress this .jpg image quite a bit to get it to a reasonable size (under 10MB).
The quality of the original TIFF image that this is from is a bit better than this but I had to compress this .jpg image quite a bit to get it to a reasonable size (under 10MB).
Oh thats pretty decent, lovely stuff
C, E flat and G go into a bar. The barman says "sorry, we don't serve minors". So E flat walks off, leaving C and G to share an open fifth between them.
Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Beats me why no-one has written an article about it. 
