Why did East Germany place storage buildings on the A4 between Bautzen and Weissenberg?

[KeithW]

The Stasi were well known for enforcing East German speed limits on Western drivers extremely strictly. They wanted hard currency which they could obtain through on the spot fines. Other methods of obtaining hard currency included manufacturing goods for sale in the West, receiving money from West Germany in exchange for the deportation of dissidents, and taking money in exchange for Western drug trials.

I remember that the user KeithW once posted a photo here showing two casually dressed men taking photos of his group while in East Germany, and he was very confident that they were Stasi officials.

The group were taking photos of everyone coming and going from the BRIXMIS building and they were there every day. The British Military Mission to the Soviet Forces to give its full name was of course in the DDR.

[Chris Bertram]

The Stasi were well known for enforcing East German speed limits on Western drivers extremely strictly. They wanted hard currency which they could obtain through on the spot fines. Other methods of obtaining hard currency included manufacturing goods for sale in the West, receiving money from West Germany in exchange for the deportation of dissidents, and taking money in exchange for Western drug trials.

I remember that the user KeithW once posted a photo here showing two casually dressed men taking photos of his group while in East Germany, and he was very confident that they were Stasi officials.

The group were taking photos of everyone coming and going from the BRIXMIS building and they were there every day. The British Military Mission to the Soviet Forces to give its full name was of course in the DDR.

I'm not sure that we (the western powers) ever recognised East Berlin as being part of the DDR. To us, it was still the Soviet Zone of occupied Berlin, and we wouldn't deal direct with DDR military personnel within the city. Hence the mission to the Soviet Forces. Of course it was the de facto capital of East Germany ("Berlin Hauptstadt der DDR" on official notices and on every postbox) and there was nothing we could do about that.

[Chris5156]

I'm not sure that we (the western powers) ever recognised East Berlin as being part of the DDR. To us, it was still the Soviet Zone of occupied Berlin, and we wouldn't deal direct with DDR military personnel within the city. Hence the mission to the Soviet Forces. Of course it was the de facto capital of East Germany ("Berlin Hauptstadt der DDR" on official notices and on every postbox) and there was nothing we could do about that.

I did wonder why the DDR was so keen to stamp "Hauptstadt der DDR" on signs and everything else - this explains it. They were insecure about it not being recognised as such.

[RJDG14]

I'm not sure that we (the western powers) ever recognised East Berlin as being part of the DDR. To us, it was still the Soviet Zone of occupied Berlin, and we wouldn't deal direct with DDR military personnel within the city. Hence the mission to the Soviet Forces. Of course it was the de facto capital of East Germany ("Berlin Hauptstadt der DDR" on official notices and on every postbox) and there was nothing we could do about that.

I did wonder why the DDR was so keen to stamp "Hauptstadt der DDR" on signs and everything else - this explains it. They were insecure about it not being recognised as such.

I would have always considered East Berlin to be the de-facto capital of the DDR, although I think the Western powers may not have fully recognised it as such.

There are Soviet maps showing Korea as a single country with Pyongyang as its capital, since they didn't formally recognise the ROK and only recognised the DPRK as a legitimate power. Likewise I think there are certain Western maps from this era that show a single Korea with Seoul as its capital. Soviet maps did show Germany as two different countries though. There are some East German maps that show "Berlin - Haupstadt Der DDR" right next to a sea of nothingness where West Berlin was, and I feel these look pretty funny.

[Chris Bertram]

I'm not sure that we (the western powers) ever recognised East Berlin as being part of the DDR. To us, it was still the Soviet Zone of occupied Berlin, and we wouldn't deal direct with DDR military personnel within the city. Hence the mission to the Soviet Forces. Of course it was the de facto capital of East Germany ("Berlin Hauptstadt der DDR" on official notices and on every postbox) and there was nothing we could do about that.

I did wonder why the DDR was so keen to stamp "Hauptstadt der DDR" on signs and everything else - this explains it. They were insecure about it not being recognised as such.

I would have always considered East Berlin to be the de-facto capital of the DDR, although I think the Western powers may not have fully recognised it as such.

There are Soviet maps showing Korea as a single country with Pyongyang as its capital, since they didn't formally recognise the ROK and only recognised the DPRK as a legitimate power. Likewise I think there are certain Western maps from this era that show a single Korea with Seoul as its capital. Soviet maps did show Germany as two different countries though. There are some East German maps that show "Berlin - Haupstadt Der DDR" right next to a sea of nothingness where West Berlin was, and I feel these look pretty funny.

The intra-German border was always shown differently to most international borders - usually as a "string of pearls", i.e. ........ rather than the more usual _._._._._._. I've never seen a Western map, however, with a single Korea with Seoul as capital.

The DDR government didn't want the citizens of East Berlin to show any interest in West Berlin, so did indeed have a white space within the Berlin Wall on maps of the time. West Berlin maps, however, showed a full street plan of East Berlin where that part of the city was included. And U-Bahn and S-Bahn maps showed the "ghost stations" where the trains didn't stop and Vopos patrolled the platforms, crossed out on the map but present nevertheless. I can't remember what eastern maps of their U-Bahn and S-Bahn showed, but I suspect that they simply omitted parts of the system outside their control.

[Berk]

That would be because services in those lines stopped completely during the Berlin Wall’s lifetime.

If it affected the line’s functionality, the line remained closed until after unification (usually including a period of refurbishment shortly after, or before reopening).

Lines that crossed the zone completely and went back to the other side again continued to run, but stations in the east were closed, and accesses stopped up (except for bridges or passageways that only linked streets in the east; any accesses to Western streets also closed).

[Octaviadriver]

I've still got my very tatty pocket West Berlin S-Bahn map from the early 1970s.

[exiled]

I'm not sure that we (the western powers) ever recognised East Berlin as being part of the DDR. To us, it was still the Soviet Zone of occupied Berlin, and we wouldn't deal direct with DDR military personnel within the city. Hence the mission to the Soviet Forces. Of course it was the de facto capital of East Germany ("Berlin Hauptstadt der DDR" on official notices and on every postbox) and there was nothing we could do about that.

I did wonder why the DDR was so keen to stamp "Hauptstadt der DDR" on signs and everything else - this explains it. They were insecure about it not being recognised as such.

I would have always considered East Berlin to be the de-facto capital of the DDR, although I think the Western powers may not have fully recognised it as such.

There are Soviet maps showing Korea as a single country with Pyongyang as its capital, since they didn't formally recognise the ROK and only recognised the DPRK as a legitimate power. Likewise I think there are certain Western maps from this era that show a single Korea with Seoul as its capital. Soviet maps did show Germany as two different countries though. There are some East German maps that show "Berlin - Haupstadt Der DDR" right next to a sea of nothingness where West Berlin was, and I feel these look pretty funny.

Both Michelin and IGN publish maps that depending on the scale show nothing within the Boulevard Pérépherique. Just a blank void where Paris should be. Nothing political as the case with Berlin, but because the dense streets of Paris can't be shown accurately at those scales. Even on standard road atlases Paris only has the main roads shown.

[wallmeerkat]

I'm still confused about how the concession roads/autobahns between West Germany and West Berlin functioned, where there no turnoffs on the roads whatsoever?

[Chris Bertram]

I'm still confused about how the concession roads/autobahns between West Germany and West Berlin functioned, where there no turnoffs on the roads whatsoever?

I believe there were turnoffs that you weren't allowed to use if you were in transit. DDR citizens could also use the roads, and had to turn off before reaching the checkpoints.

[exiled]

I'm still confused about how the concession roads/autobahns between West Germany and West Berlin functioned, where there no turnoffs on the roads whatsoever?

They were ordinary autobahns with services and were used by the GDR population. That is one of the reasons for the watch towers, and the over patrolling by the VolksPolizei. To keep westerners and GDR people as separate as possible.

[Octaviadriver]

I'm still confused about how the concession roads/autobahns between West Germany and West Berlin functioned, where there no turnoffs on the roads whatsoever?

There were turnoffs on the autobahn and when I used the West Berlin-Hamburg route in the early 1970s, the autobahn on that route hadn't been build and you drove along an S2 road through towns and villages. On all the transit routes, East Germans used them to travel, though they had to come off before they got to the border, of course.

[RJDG14]

I'm still confused about how the concession roads/autobahns between West Germany and West Berlin functioned, where there no turnoffs on the roads whatsoever?

I believe there were turnoffs that you weren't allowed to use if you were in transit. DDR citizens could also use the roads, and had to turn off before reaching the checkpoints.

I think the turnoffs were patrolled by Stasi agents who would chase after any Western vehicle that used them without a permit.

[exiled]

I'm still confused about how the concession roads/autobahns between West Germany and West Berlin functioned, where there no turnoffs on the roads whatsoever?

I believe there were turnoffs that you weren't allowed to use if you were in transit. DDR citizens could also use the roads, and had to turn off before reaching the checkpoints.

I think the turnoffs were patrolled by Stasi agents who would chase after any Western vehicle that used them without a permit.

The Stasi, the secret police, would not have been on that job. They were patrolled by the VolksPolizei, the ordinary state police.

[RJDG14]

I believe there were turnoffs that you weren't allowed to use if you were in transit. DDR citizens could also use the roads, and had to turn off before reaching the checkpoints.

I think the turnoffs were patrolled by Stasi agents who would chase after any Western vehicle that used them without a permit.

The Stasi, the secret police, would not have been on that job. They were patrolled by the VolksPolizei, the ordinary state police.

There are photos of casually dressed guys with cameras on certain East German autobahn bridges, and I suspect they were more likely Stasi agents.

[exiled]

There are photos of casually dressed guys with cameras on certain East German autobahn bridges, and I suspect they were more likely Stasi agents.

Still likely to be Volkspolizei. There may have been some Stasi input but road policing was Volkspolizei, it was a job beneath the secret police.

[RJDG14]

There are photos of casually dressed guys with cameras on certain East German autobahn bridges, and I suspect they were more likely Stasi agents.

Still likely to be Volkspolizei. There may have been some Stasi input but road policing was Volkspolizei, it was a job beneath the secret police.

The place that there likely would have been Stasi agents would have been the Raststattens (services) on the transit routes. My understanding is that these could be used by both Westerners and East Germans, however contact between the two was discouraged, and I don't know what would have happened in the scenario where a Westerner left a West German newspaper on a table in the restaurant area, or if a Westerner told an East German about life outside of the DDR.

I can find a few East German Raststatten exterior photos from the 1970s and 1980s but very little about what they were like inside. I'm under the impression that they were worse than British services at the time (which weren't great) and probably had a moderately truck stop like feel.

[Berk]

East Germans were welcome at services; they were also allowed to use the Intershop outlets there - with a selection of Western good - provided they had the currency to pay for them.

Hard in a country where possession of hard currency was sometimes illegal. Though it was possible to convert currency legally into forum cheques (basically gift vouchers in exchange for hard currency).

That being said, I’m not sure what would happen if you’d joined an Autobahn and stayed on it past the last junction in the east, or one of the transit routes to the west…

[Bryn666]

There are photos of casually dressed guys with cameras on certain East German autobahn bridges, and I suspect they were more likely Stasi agents.

Still likely to be Volkspolizei. There may have been some Stasi input but road policing was Volkspolizei, it was a job beneath the secret police.

Correct, the only place you'd ever find the MfS on an autobahn would've been in a service area with an Intershop, as this is the only place non-DDR nationals were permitted to spend money on the transit routes and they were a good way to get an indication of who people were.

Military convoys between the BRD and Westberlin were prohibited (by our side) from using these stops for this very reason.

[exiled]

There are photos of casually dressed guys with cameras on certain East German autobahn bridges, and I suspect they were more likely Stasi agents.

Still likely to be Volkspolizei. There may have been some Stasi input but road policing was Volkspolizei, it was a job beneath the secret police.

The place that there likely would have been Stasi agents would have been the Raststattens (services) on the transit routes. My understanding is that these could be used by both Westerners and East Germans, however contact between the two was discouraged, and I don't know what would have happened in the scenario where a Westerner left a West German newspaper on a table in the restaurant area, or if a Westerner told an East German about life outside of the DDR.

A Western paper would just be put in the trash or secreted, remember most East Germans had access to West German TV and radio. Proper ARD or ZDF, not things like the BBC World Service, Radio Free Europe, or Voice of America. Ordinary stuff aimed at a domestic West German audience. Those conversations would have been held between relatives, in euphemisms as the Stasi had informants. But most secret police forces do not have agents everywhere. Even for the most paranoid state that is too expensive, the staff would have been politically vetted but not Stasi.