Johnstone Bridge A74 - was there a pre-war dual carriageway?

[Bryn666]

How common were these dashed edge markings in the UK prior to the early 1990s (when I think the legislation was changed)? I've seen a weird mixture of dashed and solid edge markings on 1970s and 1980s road photos.

I remember them being really common....

Given they were the standard edge marking except at hazards prior to 1994, they were everywhere.

[Bryn666]

Some of 3 of the 4 Eaglesfield junction sliproads are also still there. It's probably the most intact of the former GSJs on the A74, largely because it received an offline motorway upgrade when most of the other GSJs were on stretches that received online upgrades:

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.0535738 ... ?entry=ttu

This is not an original slip road. The original junction was a diamond, the curved link road was constructed to replace it. Only the bridge and a stump of the old northbound entry slip road are original to the A74 here.

[RJDG14]

Some of 3 of the 4 Eaglesfield junction sliproads are also still there. It's probably the most intact of the former GSJs on the A74, largely because it received an offline motorway upgrade when most of the other GSJs were on stretches that received online upgrades:

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.0535738 ... ?entry=ttu

This is not an original slip road. The original junction was a diamond, the curved link road was constructed to replace it. Only the bridge and a stump of the old northbound entry slip road are original to the A74 here.

I was referring to the northbound entry slip road, not the modern curved one. What I meant was that it still clearly looks like a former diamond junction, and you can still make out traces of the northbound exit and southbound entry sliproads as well as the fairly intact northbound entry.

[RJDG14]

How common were these dashed edge markings in the UK prior to the early 1990s (when I think the legislation was changed)? I've seen a weird mixture of dashed and solid edge markings on 1970s and 1980s road photos.

I remember them being really common....

Given they were the standard edge marking except at hazards prior to 1994, they were everywhere.

There were still some on the road approaching Bath from Lansdown until a couple of years ago. I assume it hadn't been repainted since the early 1990s. I don't recall seeing many such markings during the 2000s so I'd imagine most disappeared fairly quickly after 1994.

The Republic of Ireland still uses dashed edge markings on non-motorways, as do a lot of European countries.

[Owain]

How common were these dashed edge markings in the UK prior to the early 1990s (when I think the legislation was changed)? I've seen a weird mixture of dashed and solid edge markings on 1970s and 1980s road photos.

I remember them being really common....

Given they were the standard edge marking except at hazards prior to 1994, they were everywhere.

I passed my test in 1994 (almost 30 years! ) and yet I don't remember seeing them anywhere in the area where I grew up. I knew they existed, because I was obsessed with roads and had read the Highway Code, but they seemed to be a feature that I only got to see if we went on a long drive somewhere.

I don't remember any on the A48 - which was still a trunk road at that point - nor on any of the B-roads I used to drive in the Forest of Dean. The only road I can really remember having any edge markings at all was the A466, and they were usually the continuous rather than dashed version.

I do, however, remember this junction having black-and-white kerbstones, albeit faded ones! Look closely and you can still see them...

[wallmeerkat]

I remember them being really common....

Given they were the standard edge marking except at hazards prior to 1994, they were everywhere.

I passed my test in 1994 (almost 30 years! ) and yet I don't remember seeing them anywhere in the area where I grew up. I knew they existed, because I was obsessed with roads and had read the Highway Code, but they seemed to be a feature that I only got to see if we went on a long drive somewhere.

I don't remember any on the A48 - which was still a trunk road at that point - nor on any of the B-roads I used to drive in the Forest of Dean. The only road I can really remember having any edge markings at all was the A466, and they were usually the continuous rather than dashed version.

I do, however, remember this junction having black-and-white kerbstones, albeit faded ones! Look closely and you can still see them...

You'll see black and white kerbstones a lot around the North West 200 track https://www.google.com/maps/@55.1882521 ... ?entry=ttu

Otherwise sometimes you see old dashed lines at the side of the carraigeway where the painted over line has faded away. It made sense as in you could stop there (at your own risk) whereas solid lines mean you cannot stop.

[MotorwayGuy]

Black and white painted kerbs used to be common at roundabouts and rural junctions, but I think they went out with the striped poles for signs and traffic lights post-Worboys. There used to be black and white kerbs here (the paint has almost completely worn away now), the strange thing is this junction was built in the early 1970s, long after the practice went out of fashion.

[orudge]

https://x.com/scotroadarchive/status/17 ... 8206149845

A lovely A74 RCS.

[RJDG14]

Black and white painted kerbs used to be common at roundabouts and rural junctions, but I think they went out with the striped poles for signs and traffic lights post-Worboys. There used to be black and white kerbs here (the paint has almost completely worn away now), the strange thing is this junction was built in the early 1970s, long after the practice went out of fashion.

You still see sectarian related painted kerbs in parts of Northern Ireland - I believe Newbuildings is an example of a village with Loyalist (red/white/blue) ones, for example. I can't think of anywhere with Nationalist (green/white/orange) painted kerbs off the top of my head, but I'm sure they exist.

[RJDG14]

https://x.com/scotroadarchive/status/17 ... 8206149845

A lovely A74 RCS.

Did this part of the former road receive an online upgrade? From what I can tell the road in that photo roughly matches the alignment of the modern A74(M) as opposed to the B7076, and I can't see any trace of a former carriageway beside the B7076 where this photo would have been taken, making me suspect that this portion of it was a newly built access road.

The A74 looks a fairly reasonable A road standard in that picture, much like most of the stretch from Carlisle to Gretna. I think it was like this for much of its length, though the portion around Lesmahagow was pretty poor.

This is the view today of where I believe that photo was taken:

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.3872791 ... ?entry=ttu

[Bryn666]

https://x.com/scotroadarchive/status/17 ... 8206149845

A lovely A74 RCS.

Did this part of the former road receive an online upgrade? From what I can tell the road in that photo roughly matches the alignment of the modern A74(M) as opposed to the B7076, and I can't see any trace of a former carriageway beside the B7076 where this photo would have been taken, making me suspect that this portion of it was a newly built access road.

The A74 looks a fairly reasonable A road standard in that picture, much like most of the stretch from Carlisle to Gretna. I think it was like this for much of its length, though the portion around Lesmahagow was pretty poor.

This is the view today of where I believe that photo was taken:

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.3872791 ... ?entry=ttu

SABRE Maps will tell you exactly - using the Map Fader we can see the B7076 here is offline: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... 3&layer=41

This has been discussed on previous pages. Several lengths of the B7076 are not original to the A74 dualling either for tie-ins or whatever such as being returned to pre-bypass/dualling alignments (e.g. Abington and other villages), but this is the most significant length where the B road is new build.

[RJDG14]

For those who want to see how the A74 looked at the Harthope Viaduct in the 1980s and early 1990s, here's a photo, I think looking southbound:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/26/635/

This was the same view shortly after the 1960s road was first opened, showing how it originally looked without hard strips:

https://live.staticflickr.com/8485/8232 ... 77e6_b.jpg

[RJDG14]

The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:

https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1

It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.

[Bryn666]

The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:

https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1

It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.

The old A74 carriageways were given slightly wider haunches to accommodate hard strips where it hadn't already been done post-motorway works. These are technically cycle lanes in places.

[RJDG14]

The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:

https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1

It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.

The old A74 carriageways were given slightly wider haunches to accommodate hard strips where it hadn't already been done post-motorway works. These are technically cycle lanes in places.

This is a photo of "Elvanfoot Filling Station" from around 1980. Was this the northbound filling station that is visible in that photo on Twitter/X?

https://live.staticflickr.com/4911/4588 ... cd28_b.jpg

[Bryn666]

The Scottish Roads Archive has posted another photo from just south of Crawford looking south, and the road looks a surprisingly poor standard for circa-1989 when it was taken:

https://twitter.com/ScotRoadArchive/sta ... 76/photo/1

It looks like this particular stretch had received no improvements since it was constructed in the early 1960s. Many sections were later retrofitted with hard strips and central crash barriers but this section looks like it never was. I previously thought that the only portion not to have ever received crash barriers was the bit south of Lesmahagow, and maybe portions around Crawfordjohn where both carriageways were a wide distance apart. I could be wrong on this but the faint original markings on Google's late 2000s Street View imagery suggest that the bypassed Crawfordjohn section did contain hard strips during its later period of use as the A74.

The old A74 carriageways were given slightly wider haunches to accommodate hard strips where it hadn't already been done post-motorway works. These are technically cycle lanes in places.

This is a photo of "Elvanfoot Filling Station" from around 1980. Was this the northbound filling station that is visible in that photo on Twitter/X?

https://live.staticflickr.com/4911/4588 ... cd28_b.jpg

Probably is yes.

[nowster]

This is a photo of "Elvanfoot Filling Station" from around 1980.

And that reminds me of an incident. It was 1995 and we were in the first year of our startup ISP. There was a trade show in London and a group, including two of the senior staff, had gone down (from Shetland) there in a hired van.

On the way back, the van ran out of fuel somewhere past Beattock and the big boss set off walking along the A74 northbound with a petrol can. After a little while the police stopped beside him, asking what he was doing.

When he told them they laughed and said he had a very very long walk ahead of him, and the nearest petrol station was only a few miles in the other direction. They gave him a lift back there.

[RJDG14]

This is a photo of "Elvanfoot Filling Station" from around 1980.

And that reminds me of an incident. It was 1995 and we were in the first year of our startup ISP. There was a trade show in London and a group, including two of the senior staff, had gone down (from Shetland) there in a hired van.

On the way back, the van ran out of fuel somewhere past Beattock and the big boss set off walking along the A74 northbound with a petrol can. After a little while the police stopped beside him, asking what he was doing.

When he told them they laughed and said he had a very very long walk ahead of him, and the nearest petrol station was only a few miles in the other direction. They gave him a lift back there.

I'm not aware of any of the A74 having a ban on pedestrians based on the photos I've seen, though it would have certainly been a little weird walking along it with a petrol can. It was probably kind of them to have given him a lift to the nearby petrol station.

[nowster]

I'm not aware of any of the A74 having a ban on pedestrians based on the photos I've seen, though it would have certainly been a little weird walking along it with a petrol can. It was probably kind of them to have given him a lift to the nearby petrol station.

No ban on pedestrians, just a little lecture about how silly he was for running out of fuel and also going the wrong way, and probably a nice tale to relate to their colleagues back at the station.

[Bryn666]

I'm not aware of any of the A74 having a ban on pedestrians based on the photos I've seen, though it would have certainly been a little weird walking along it with a petrol can. It was probably kind of them to have given him a lift to the nearby petrol station.

No ban on pedestrians, just a little lecture about how silly he was for running out of fuel and also going the wrong way, and probably a nice tale to relate to their colleagues back at the station.

Yes, that would've been an unpleasant walk all the same.